project 2025

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

A couple things to add - it wasn't just the Soviet threat but we also had a real threat of the economy collapsing  - the worse economic situation since the Great Depression - possibly only superseded now by what Obama inherited after the crash of 2007 & 8.  Covid was bad - but that wasn't an economic structural issue like 2008 and 1980.  They both dealt with their crisis's differently  -  but both paths worked. Proof that one strategy isn't a fix-all for all situations (aka - GOP obsession with tax cuts).  Trump would go on and wrongfully claim the great economy was due to his policies and Clinton would enjoy the benefits of Reagan's 'peace dividend' and the strong economy that started under the Reagan recovery.  

AMEN on the economic issues.  And...why Repubs are shocked when I didn't support the Trump tax cuts.  We didn't need them....and they don't always work the same way.  Hey...I'm always for the lowest taxes possible.  But, these were just stupid to make his base love him...without any real understanding of economics.

[TGHusker]

19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

AMEN on the economic issues.  And...why Repubs are shocked when I didn't support the Trump tax cuts.  We didn't need them....and they don't always work the same way.  Hey...I'm always for the lowest taxes possible.  But, these were just stupid to make his base love him...without any real understanding of economics.

Well it doesn't take leadership and vision to repeat the mantra "tax cuts, tax cuts" .  It takes leadership and vision to look squarely at today's situation and come up with workable solutions that work today - not what worked 40 years ago or 10 years ago.  That is why the GOP leadership has been pathetic of late.  As that one GOP Rep said in that video someone shared yesterday on one of these treads - name one constructive, material thing this GOP House has accomplished this term.... crickets.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Guy - no offense meant, but I think you are reading a revisionist history of the Reagan years or did not know or have forgotten (I don't know your age) the threat to democracy we had worldwide under the Soviet threat.  Reagan wasn't perfect and in an era of peace it is easy to pick any administration apart - esp 40 years removed from that history.

The division we are seeing now was totally not imaginable during the time of Reagan - who didn't mind having a drink with the Democratic House leader.   There are many reasons top historians have placed Reagan in the top 10 realm of presidents and linking him to the trumpian, Neanderthal, fascist world of today's GOP is not one of those reasons. 

 

But I think we can go to the scorched earth campaign of GHWB run by Lee Atwater and we start seeing a bit more of what you are talking about.  Jump that up a notch with 

Newt.  After the GOP got a taste of power, owning the House after 38 years, then we start seeing more issues that led to deeper divisions.  But even at that, the Tea Party and then Trump himself took it to a whole new level. 

 

For the record, I cast my first vote in the 1980 Presidential Election. I didn't vote for either Reagan or Carter. I understand the last 50 years pretty well.

 

I totally get the nostalgic preference for Reagan, and that he would, in fact, be a huge improvement over Trump and a comforting presence in today's White House. Yes, he presided over a more congenial and collaborative Congress, but so did his predecessors and successors, with everyone sharing drinks till roughly the Obama administration. 

When I accuse Reagan of mythologizing it's because that was his great skill. Carter had inherited the massive bill and loss of prestige from the Vietnam War, and was horribly out of step with Washington. People craved Reagan's vision of The City on the Hill and he gave them a terrific performance and sense of optimism. Plenty of good things sprung from that. 

But when it came to actual policy, Reagan and his administration took a top-down supply side approach to almost everything. Yes, “the seven most feared words in America” was a fun takedown of the big government mommy state, but the deregulation and gutting of social services under Reagan set the course for homelessness and mental health issues that we decry today, in addition to hugely favoring the already wealthy and powerful who – it turned out – had no intention of letting anything trickle down, accepting huge government incentives/exemptions while abandoning our labor force for other countries. If you look at the growing division of the haves and have nots in America, it all traces back to the Reagan years. 

https://www.mic.com/articles/104612/7-charts-show-why-trickle-down-economics-has-been-an-enormous-failure

(https://www.mic.com/articles/104612/7-charts-show-why-trickle-down-economics-has-been-an-enormous-failure)

 

So to me, the “clarity” Reagan provided were the real simple things we wanted to hear, and because he appealed to the better nature of Americans, it sounded much better than the partisan rancor being pedaled today. But behind the scenes it was the beginning of a lasting division. 
 
And with all due respect to standing up to Russia (we held all the cards on that one) those Reagan administration foreign policy scandals could hold their own with any recent administration. That Reagan team also set a disastrous foreign policy course that influential conservative think tanks still follow today, despite nothing turning out as they predicted. 
 
Interesting and unanswerable question: if pre-presidential Ronald Reagan was in today’s GOP, would he be a voice of reason in his quest to be President, or would he have migrated like other Republicans to stances and rhetoric similar to party standard bearer Donald Trump?  
 

[Guy Chamberlin]

3 hours ago, teachercd said:

Who are your 3 favorite Presidents?  I think I have a guess.

 

That's kinda like asking my 3 favorite dentists. Legit question, though. Let me give it some thought.

 

Meanwhile......what are your guesses? 

[Lorewarn]

While we're on the list of Reagan's effects let's not forget that he and Jerry Falwell Sr. successfully co-opted the white religious imagination of America into serving right-wing interests with the genesis of the Moral Majority™‬  which we all know as being very cool and helpful and healthy for our country.

[teachercd]

49 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

That's kinda like asking my 3 favorite dentists. Legit question, though. Let me give it some thought.

 

Meanwhile......what are your guesses? 

It is kind of hard because I don't know how old you are...and I really would only consider picking Presidents that you were alive for...

 

So...in no order

 

JFK

Carter

Obama

 

Possibly, Clinton in for JFK.  Both are super sleaze-balls but JFK seems to get forgiven for stuff while Bill, not as much.

 

 

[Archy1221]

8 hours ago, Scarlet said:

 

If you ever dug yourself out the dark right-wing web you wallow in you might realize that a lot of qualified experts on the fragility of democracy are sounding the alarms over Project 2025.  I mean if it keeps them up at night you might want to consider that just maybe they have a reason for that.  

I did some digging on the dark right-wing web…actually I just used google but that’s for another day….and found this for you to educate yourself on and then report back to us commoners on what the evil portions of this dastardly authoritarian scheme that is going to take us to some Hitler type hell scape of a country.  Probably better to get this info from the source rather than Wikipedia.    
 

Anyways, it’s kinda long so take the week and then give us a good synopsis with some highlighted sections so we can all worry together.  
 

I’d do it, but then again I don’t really care about it at the moment and will be on vacation in the lions den of Manhattan, NY.  Wish me luck btw. 
 

https://www.project2025.org/

 

 

[Scarlet]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I did some digging on the dark right-wing web…actually I just used google but that’s for another day….and found this for you to educate yourself on and then report back to us commoners on what the evil portions of this dastardly authoritarian scheme that is going to take us to some Hitler type hell scape of a country.  Probably better to get this info from the source rather than Wikipedia.    
 

Anyways, it’s kinda long so take the week and then give us a good synopsis with some highlighted sections so we can all worry together.  
 

I’d do it, but then again I don’t really care about it at the moment and will be on vacation in the lions den of Manhattan, NY.  Wish me luck btw. 
 

https://www.project2025.org/

 

 

Thanks for posting your manifesto.

 

It didn't take long for the crazy to jump off the page

 

"It’s not 1980. In 2023, the game has changed. The long march of cultural Marxism through our institutions has come to pass. The federal government is a behemoth, weaponized against American citizens and conservative values, with freedom and liberty under siege as never before."

 

 

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

13 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Since no one else seems to want to answer, do you believe that the country is in danger of Trump serving another four years and then just deciding not to leave and the safe guards of our system of government will just allow that to happen? 

Why don’t we flip this on it’s head:

 

Are you not at all concerned about the potential negative outcomes if he tried?

 

He already tried it FFS.

[commando]

9 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

Why don’t we flip this on it’s head:

 

Are you not at all concerned about the potential negative outcomes if he tried?

 

He already tried it FFS.

yeah...the 2025 project is the plan to tear down those safe guards 

[Guy Chamberlin]

16 hours ago, teachercd said:

It is kind of hard because I don't know how old you are...and I really would only consider picking Presidents that you were alive for...

 

So...in no order

 

JFK

Carter

Obama

 

Possibly, Clinton in for JFK.  Both are super sleaze-balls but JFK seems to get forgiven for stuff while Bill, not as much.

 

 

 

Well clever readers will note that in the first line I basically told you how old I was, and that I didn't even vote for Carter when I had the chance.

 

But here goes, in no particular order: 

 

Abraham Lincoln

This is kinda like picking Michael Jordan for your all-NBA team. 

 

Frankline Delano Roosevelt

Rich guy who understood the system better than anyone, and bent it to create a better system for everyone. Bonus points: had to navigate a Great Depression and World War II.

 

Dwight D. Eisenhower

KInda surprised about this one myself. Another dude who witnessed power behind the scenes like nobody else, and actually warned us about the military industrial complex he'd been a part of. Undervalued for his intelligence, and relatively unquestioned for his integrity. Today's GOP would have nothing to do with this war hero. 

 

 

JFK? Spent the first two years doing what his dad told him. Might have been a really good second term president. 

Carter? Really interesting and thoughtful man, not cut out for the job.

Clinton? Never really liked the guy, although the Clinton years themselves are a model of how centrism can work fairly decently. 

Obama? Eh. Like Reagan, I'd give him an A for inspirational rhetoric, but behind the scenes he was overly cautious and determined to prove his moderation to conservatives who were never going to credit him for anything. 

[DevoHusker]

43 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well clever readers will note that in the first line I basically told you how old I was, and that I didn't even vote for Carter when I had the chance.

 

But here goes, in no particular order: 

 

Abraham Lincoln

This is kinda like picking Michael Jordan for your all-NBA team. 

 

Frankline Delano Roosevelt

Rich guy who understood the system better than anyone, and bent it to create a better system for everyone. Bonus points: had to navigate a Great Depression and World War II.

 

Dwight D. Eisenhower

KInda surprised about this one myself. Another dude who witnessed power behind the scenes like nobody else, and actually warned us about the military industrial complex he'd been a part of. Undervalued for his intelligence, and relatively unquestioned for his integrity. Today's GOP would have nothing to do with this war hero. 

 

 

JFK? Spent the first two years doing what his dad told him. Might have been a really good second term president. 

Carter? Really interesting and thoughtful man, not cut out for the job.

Clinton? Never really liked the guy, although the Clinton years themselves are a model of how centrism can work fairly decently. 

Obama? Eh. Like Reagan, I'd give him an A for inspirational rhetoric, but behind the scenes he was overly cautious and determined to prove his moderation to conservatives who were never going to credit him for anything. 

Hard to argue

[commando]

maybe this is a 2025 preview?   he sounds very MAGA here

 

 

 

[DevoHusker]

29 minutes ago, commando said:

maybe this is a 2025 preview?   he sounds very MAGA here

 

 

 

 

wrong thread?

[Archy1221]

22 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

 

wrong thread?

Well, he put the words MAGA in his post so apparently any thread works.