Reaction to Coke's "America The Beautiful" ad

[knapplc]

Straight people are allowed to act on their sex inclinations if they get married and that's cool with Jesus and Christianity and all, but gay people can't? Wow, being born gay kinda sounds like a bum deal.

So by the logic train, one of two things must be true. Either

A - "God" made a mistake making gay people as they are genetically wired to be "sinners" which according to Christian dogma, is impossible. or

B - "God" is a sick, sadistic bastard who gets off on torturing people by dropping them into a no win situation.

 

 

Or a 3rd option maybe?

 

A - God made humans perfect and they would never die

B - Humans sinned and thus would die...enter in genetic mutation and anomalies as well as death through Adam's sin (Genesis story)

C - Steal underwear

D - ?

E - Profit

 

This defeats your argument of homosexuality as sin, you know. It also defeats the logic of a loving God, but we'll let that slide.

 

If it's genetic - epigenetic, as the article claims - it is not an intentional thing, it is not an intentional sin, therefore they are doing no more wrong than a mentally challenged person who does sinful things. Unless you want to claim that mentally challenged people who sin are going to hell, then we do have to have a discussion about how God is not only not loving, but the opposite of loving.

[Landlord]

 

def·i·ni·tion

 

noun\ˌde-fə-ˈni-shən\

 

: an explanation of the meaning of a word, phrase, etc. : a statement that defines a word, phrase, etc.

: a statement that describes what something is

: a clear or perfect example of a person or thing

 

 

I provided you the definition so that instead of just saying "yes", and taking my word for it, you could clearly see that a gay person is still gay even if they don't act in "gay ways".

 

Since you ignored others answering the question, I'll answer it clearly.

 

Yes, a gay person is still gay even if they don't practice it or act on it.

 

That being said, I'll refer you back to my previous post.

 

 

You phrased it as someone "being" gay in nature. You said NOTHING of "if someone acts in a homosexual way." These are inconsistent statements from you.

 

Please be careful with your words. If someone is gay, it means they are attracted to the same sex. So, per your last post, you CAN be both Gay and Christian. When you phrase it the way you originally did, you come off as an insensitive bigot, which I don't believe you are, but can entirely see why people would think so, because you are saying that someone's essence, rather than their actions, is sinful.

 

 

 

I only claimed that gays that continue to practice the Bible defined sin of homosexuality cannot be Christian.

 

 

when someone says they are both Gay and Christian...to me, that is logically impossible

 

 

Again. No, you didn't. That is not what you claimed.

 

You claimed that gays cannot be Christian. Because they are gay.

 

Maybe it's not what you meant. But it's what you said. Own it and move on.

[JJ Husker]

Jeez, I stay away from the P&R forum for a few months and when I return I agree with knapp and carl. #whatsgoingon

 

Anyway, my two cents- the idea that sinners can't be Christian............probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[strigori]

Straight people are allowed to act on their sex inclinations if they get married and that's cool with Jesus and Christianity and all, but gay people can't? Wow, being born gay kinda sounds like a bum deal.

So by the logic train, one of two things must be true. Either

A - "God" made a mistake making gay people as they are genetically wired to be "sinners" which according to Christian dogma, is impossible. or

B - "God" is a sick, sadistic bastard who gets off on torturing people by dropping them into a no win situation.

 

 

Or a 3rd option maybe?

 

A - God made humans perfect and they would never die

B - Humans sinned and thus would die...enter in genetic mutation and anomalies as well as death through Adam's sin (Genesis story)

C - Steal underwear

D - ?

E - Profit

So the argument is the 'infallible' being that knows and sees all, didn't see dropping a tree and saying 'don't touch this' would be an issue? There are so many holes in the story and logic its ridiculous. And I swear if the response is something along the lines of "Only God Knows"......

 

"I love what I created SO MUCH, I'm going to make them all suffer and die for the mistake of one guy!" So loving.

[Landlord]

Once again, according to you. You have an idea that being gay and being homosexual is different from one another. They both can and often do refer to the exact same thing. In this case, you're busting my balls over a niggling interchangeable world that you think isn't interchangeable.

 

Feel free to interchange them there...because TO ME they're the exact same thing. I'm sorry they're not for you.

 

 

1. I don't think being gay and being homosexual are different. They mean the same thing. I think being gay/homosexual and acting in a gay/homosexual way are different and mean different things.

 

2. I am busting your balls over the above distinction, not the gay vs. homosexual distinction.

 

3. The reason I am doing so is because your original word choice didn't imply action (which you later agreed is what you meant), but implied the nature of "being", which alienates and condemns thousands of Christian men and women that struggle with being obedient to Jesus whilst having gay/homosexual attraction - being gay/homosexual.

 

You don't think they mean anything different. Well, that's because you're not affected by them. It's the same thing as if I were to say "being heterosexual is sinful" when what I really meant was "engaging in heterosexual lust is sinful". Because that's essentially what you said, and if someone said that about you you would disagree that they mean the same thing.

[walksalone]

if you're christian and a homosexual, this happens...

 

[rawhide]

wait....not that one... ...there

[VectorVictor]

Landlord & Colbert droppin' that boom.

 

Pretty much won the debate hands down. Thread should be closed now thanks to Landlord/Colbert lowering the boom on the stupidity our 'American' friends over at Fox News are spewing.

[Ulty]

 

I don't have an argument for you...because this isn't what's being discussed in the thread. You'll need to start a new thread and request comments there.

 

You argue about gays and the Bible in a thread about a Coke commercial and a patriotic song, and then arbitrarily decide that any new points violate the integrity of the thread topic?

 

That's not what Jesus would do.

[walksalone]

 

I don't have an argument for you...because this isn't what's being discussed in the thread. You'll need to start a new thread and request comments there.

 

You argue about gays and the Bible in a thread about a Coke commercial and a patriotic song, and then arbitrarily decide that any new points violate the integrity of the thread topic?

 

That's not what Jesus would do.

 

So wait, Jesus loves anal while drinking a coke?

[Stumpy1]

 

I don't have an argument for you...because this isn't what's being discussed in the thread. You'll need to start a new thread and request comments there.

 

You argue about gays and the Bible in a thread about a Coke commercial and a patriotic song, and then arbitrarily decide that any new points violate the integrity of the thread topic?

 

That's not what Jesus would do.

 

So wait, Jesus loves anal while drinking a coke?

If he does...He isn't a Christian

[StPaulHusker]

 

I don't have an argument for you...because this isn't what's being discussed in the thread. You'll need to start a new thread and request comments there.

 

You argue about gays and the Bible in a thread about a Coke commercial and a patriotic song, and then arbitrarily decide that any new points violate the integrity of the thread topic?

 

That's not what Jesus would do.

 

So wait, Jesus loves anal while drinking a coke?

He's indifferent and prefers Coke Zero

[knapplc]

I think a lot of what Jesus would or wouldn't do, as elucidated by Paul, goes like this:

 

 

I Corinthians 10: 23-31

²³ “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. ²⁴ No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.

²⁵ Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, ²⁶ for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”^[f]

²⁷ If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. ²⁸ But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. ²⁹ I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? ³⁰ If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

³¹ So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. ³² Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— ³³ even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

 

Paul is basically saying - do anything. Do everything. Just be aware that not everything you do is beneficial to your spiritual health.

 

A great line for gay Christian is verse 29 - For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? If you know and love Jesus in your heart but you're gay... OK. It may be a sin (according to some, not all), but if your heart is right with the Lord, go live your life.

 

Paul wrote this knowing he was a constant sinner, knowing he attempted to improve himself and failed, knowing that he was condemned to the bondage of slavery (he knew he was in the ocean and that towel wasn't drying him off). Knowing that if HE was struggling, the guy whom the Lord personally chose to lead his church, then everyone else must be struggling all the more. And in the midst of that, he tells the people of Corinth, "Hey, it's tough to walk this path. Don't burden yourself with the expectations of others."

 

That's probably pretty good advice for all the Christians on this board, considering how your beliefs are constantly debated here, and not in the best light.

 

 

 

My understanding of the religion as an outsider isn't nearly as strong as knapplc's -- good posting, by the way I feel rather uneducated in this conversation.

 

As outsiders go I'm kind of a cheater. I had 40 years of regular churchgoing before switching off the team. With very little brush-up time I'd feel comfortable (from a knowledge standpoint) leading Bible studies again.

[BigRedBuster]

I think a lot of what Jesus would or wouldn't do, as elucidated by Paul, goes like this:

 

 

I Corinthians 10: 23-31

²³ “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. ²⁴ No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.

²⁵ Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, ²⁶ for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”^[f]

²⁷ If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. ²⁸ But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. ²⁹ I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? ³⁰ If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

³¹ So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. ³² Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— ³³ even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

 

Paul is basically saying - do anything. Do everything. Just be aware that not everything you do is beneficial to your spiritual health.

 

A great line for gay Christian is verse 29 - For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? If you know and love Jesus in your heart but you're gay... OK. It may be a sin (according to some, not all), but if your heart is right with the Lord, go live your life.

 

Paul wrote this knowing he was a constant sinner, knowing he attempted to improve himself and failed, knowing that he was condemned to the bondage of slavery (he knew he was in the ocean and that towel wasn't drying him off). Knowing that if HE was struggling, the guy whom the Lord personally chose to lead his church, then everyone else must be struggling all the more. And in the midst of that, he tells the people of Corinth, "Hey, it's tough to walk this path. Don't burden yourself with the expectations of others."

 

That's probably pretty good advice for all the Christians on this board, considering how your beliefs are constantly debated here, and not in the best light.

 

 

 

My understanding of the religion as an outsider isn't nearly as strong as knapplc's -- good posting, by the way I feel rather uneducated in this conversation.

 

As outsiders go I'm kind of a cheater. I had 40 years of regular churchgoing before switching off the team. With very little brush-up time I'd feel comfortable (from a knowledge standpoint) leading Bible studies again.

 

 

Well said.

[knapplc]

But dev, you agree that you sin, and you agree that you keep sinning. Just like Paul, you are a sinner in need of redemption, and your sin and Paul's sin is/was no different than the sin of anyone else.

 

You may rationalize it in your head that you're not passing judgment but you're 100% alone in that belief. Not one person, Christian or no, thinks it's in any way rational for you to separate your sin from what you see as a sin in homosexuality.

 

If you're not speaking out against gay people out in the world and just having an intellectual conversation here, I don't think anyone here would have too much of an issue with that. That would go along with the I Corinthians verse I highlighted up there - do your thing and don't let anyone else's conscience dissuade you.

 

But if you're voting on that or in any way infringing on other Christians' rights... well, I'm going to disagree with that, and I dare say God will too. But that's between you and him.