Homosexuality, Culture, and Theology

[EbylHusker]

Well, homosexuality is not a choice - unless you're now claiming it is? All of the examples you listed are either done by choice, or usually (always?) come about because a series of events in the person's life have helped twist them into something "evil." This is not the case with homosexuality. And in case you're about to object...

 

http://www.aacap.org/aacap/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/Facts_for_Families_Pages/Children_with_Lesbian_Gay_Bisexual_and_Transgender_Parents_92.aspx

 

Specifically:

 

"Sometimes people are concerned that children being raised by a gay parent will need extra emotional support or face unique social stressors.Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is important for parents to understand that it is the the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

• Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
• Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
• Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
• Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior)."

So they're "made" homosexual by God, if you assume God has a hand in all things, but not allowed to have sex with other men/women. Is God making people into murders, psychopaths, and so on? I'm guessing not, so there is obviously an element of human choice/development with that. It has been well documented. Not so with homosexuality.

 

Edit - Now, the quoted page does not take into account theories on environmental factors (beyond being raised by homesexual parents). However, there is yet to be any real documented proof that these play a major role, let alone a consensus.

 

But let me make sure I'm understanding this... God has a hand in making someone homosexual, but it's a sin, or corruption, to have sex with someone of the same gender. If they are to do so, they are participating in the same corruption of the soul that murderers, pedophiles, drug users, adulterers, and so on are? You said the corruption of sin making us not what we ought to be... So homosexual people are supposed to be homosexual, but intended to live a chaste life? Is that your claim?

[tschu]

Holy f'ing sh#t, Landlord.

[tschu]

There's so much there that I can absolutely destroy that I don't know where to start

[Hooked on Huskers]

Just wondering about percentages of real homosexuals including many gay people not openly. Less than 1% of the people ? I have no idea.

 

My daughter claimed she is a bi-sexual ....... 23 years old and unmarried so far.

 

EDIT: Whoa, way off ..... (wiki source)

 

According to major studies, 2% to 11% of people have had some form of same-sex sexual contact within their lifetime;^{[119][120][121][122][123][124][125][126][127][128]} this percentage rises to 16-21% when either or both same-sex attraction and/or behavior are reported.^[128] In a 2006 study, 20% of respondents anonymously reported some homosexual feelings, although only 2-3% identified themselves as homosexual.^[129] A 1992 study reported that 6.1% of males in Britain have had a homosexual experience, while in France the number was reported at 4.1%.^[130] According to a 2008 poll, 13% of Britons have had some form of same-sex sexual contact while only 6% of Britons identify themselves as either homosexual or bisexual.^[131] In contrast, a survey by the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) in 2010 found that 95% of Britons identified as heterosexual, 1.5% of Britons identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual, and the last 3.5% gave more vague answers such as "don't know," "other," or did not respond to the question.^[115][132]

In the United States, according to a The Williams Institute report in April 2011, only 3.5% or approximately 9 million of the adult population are lesbian, gay, or bisexual.^[133][134] According to the 2000 United States Census there were about 601,209 same-sex unmarried partner households.

[Junior]

Landlord, do you have sources for those numbers? Or are they completely made up?

[ShawnWatson]

Landlord, you really need to cite your sources if you are going to claim this. Also, you may be insane.

[Junior]

 

 

Oh, I'm sorry. Apparently there's nothing wrong with BEING gay, just don't have sex with other gay dudes. Yeah, that's a philosophically sound and rational viewpoint. :

 

 

What exactly is the problem with it? If someone has reason to believe that homosexual activity is harmful, seems pretty fair to hold a position that there's nothing wrong with a person being oriented towards something if they don't act out on it. I get that you don't think there's harm in it so you don't make the same comparisons, but I do (will address this further down), and that in mind I can compare it to other more easily demonstrable examples:

 

There's nothing wrong with being prone to alcoholism, but staying sober-minded is healthy and good.

There's nothing wrong with being prone to violence, but control your anger and don't curb stomp people.

There's nothing wrong with being unhappy in your marriage, but don't be unfaithful and an adulterer.

 

 

It's a moral issue alright, and one that you're on the very wrong side of.

 

Prove it man. Give me something worthwhile to show me how I am objectively wrong that isn't based on the inconsistent and ever changing cultural agenda of the present time. If it's this obvious then just prove it to me - especially when my side of the moral issue leads me to love gay people, to have close and treasured relationships with them, and to fight for their liberties and rights.

 

 

 

 

Landlord, you never said anything about homosexuality being bad, necessarily, but you did say that they make bad decisions. As if gay people choose to be gay. That has got to be one of the most idiotic statements anyone could possibly make about this issue. Why in God's green earth would someone choose to be gay? That would be like choosing to be black during most of America's history. And why is having gay sex a bad decision? Other than the fact that the Bible prohibits it, do you actually have a good reason for this belief? It's obvious that you don't strictly adhere to everything in the Bible, so I think it's a little hypocritical for you to base your opinions of homosexuality off of what the Bible says.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion, but I never implied or said that gay people choose to be gay. That wasn't the choice I was referring to (the choice being homosexual acts). It's pretty well established that sexual orientation is almost entirely determined by genetics and social conditioning.

 

As far as homosexual acts being a bad decision, yeah, I have a number of reasons to think this is the case outside of just "The Bible says so":

 

1. Drastic promiscuity and homosexual behavior go hand in hand. 75% of homosexual men have more than 100 sexual partners in their lifetime, half being strangers, and something like 7-8% of all homosexual people have relationships lasting longer than three years. As a Christian this is disturbing from the spiritual perspective when taking into account the ideas of purity and covenants, but even as a practical person you have to acknowledge the significantly greater propensity for diseases, lack of worthwhile relationships and other things. Promiscuity among homosexual men isn't a stereotype, or even really a 'majority' experience - it is very close to the entirety of experience.

 

2. With that comes seriously ramped up drug usage. I'll have to find the study but it showed that 47% of homosexual men have a history of alcohol abuse and 51% have a history of of drug abuse, with a direct correlation between number of partners and amount of drugs consumed.

 

3. There's also overwhelming evidence that some mental disorders occur with a lot more frequency in homosexual people, with attempted suicide rates six times more than heterosexual counterparts and much higher propensity towards serious depression. Some of that, no doubt, has to do with facing the societal pressure that heterosexual people don't have to suffer through, but all of it? Eh, I'm skeptical.

 

4. Homosexual sex is just straight up devastating to your body. It results in stuff like prostate damage, ulcers and ruptures, anal warts, chronic diarrhea and incontinence.

 

5. Finally, the diseases man. Not including AIDS, 75% of guys carry some kind of STD. Still excluding those with AIDS, the life expectancy of a homosexual man is 45 years old. Compared to 70 for men overall.

 

 

 

Moving on, what don't I adhere to in the Bible? Not sure what you're referencing, but in addition to the objective reasons why I come to the conclusion that homosexual acts are bad news, there is still the matter of my faith. You guys seem to be throwing around this strawman reasoning where I and others just proclaim "THE BIBLE SAYS SO" as if it's an isolated and arbitrary statement that doesn't have any meaning. When, IF, I say I believe something because the Bible says so, it's because I believe the Bible to be God's word, which is true and right and just do to believing that God is omniscient and loving and just and merciful.

 

 

 

 

 

I was going to go through and express just how very wrong you are, point by point. As I was reading through, I decided that you can't fight that much stupid with data.... so I figured this would suffice:

 

[Apathy]

I've got such a man crush on Matt Chandler it's not even fair.

Sinner

 

[The Dude]

I started google searching some of your claims up there, Landlord. I noticed a trend. Did you just copy and paste quotes from this guy?

 

 

William Lane Craig is Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California. He and his wife Jan have two grown children.

At the age of sixteen as a junior in high school, he first heard the message of the Christian gospel and yielded his life to Christ . . .

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/72189.William_Lane_Craig

 

 

First, color me shocked a devout Christian is obsessed with the sexual activity of gay men. Also, color me shocked that he couldn't seem to be bothered with providing evidence to support his claims.

 

[sd'sker]

Prove it man. Give me something worthwhile to show me how I am objectively wrong that isn't based on the inconsistent and ever changing cultural agenda of the present time. If it's this obvious then just prove it to me - especially when my side of the moral issue leads me to love gay people, to have close and treasured relationships with them, and to fight for their liberties and rights.

this statement made me think of this:

After 350 Years, Vatican Says Galileo Was Right: It Moves

[NUpolo8]

(Peruses Huskerboard)

 

(Clicks on this thread)

 

(Dies)

[Ulty]

Landlord, that's some of the most vile BS I've ever seen on this board.

[TonyStalloni]

Sorry but to me Landlord makes pretty good sense. I stated a few days ago I have changed a few of my beliefs toward gay people. I understand they have the right to live where they want to live and with whom they want to live. The right to privacy and not be castigated for their choice. The right to serve their country as a soldier or politically in office. I doubt I'll ever agree that sex between two men or women is moral and inside Gods will but will agree it shouldn't be against the law. I agree with Landlord that the human race was made by God to be His masterpiece.

 

This all ties in to my beliefs of what the Bible is intended to be but that isn't part of this discussion.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

[Landlord]

I started google searching some of your claims up there, Landlord. I noticed a trend. Did you just copy and paste quotes from this guy?

 

 

William Lane Craig is Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California. He and his wife Jan have two grown children.

 

At the age of sixteen as a junior in high school, he first heard the message of the Christian gospel and yielded his life to Christ . . .

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/72189.William_Lane_Craig

 

 

First, color me shocked a devout Christian is obsessed with the sexual activity of gay men. Also, color me shocked that he couldn't seem to be bothered with providing evidence to support his claims.

 

 

 

I actually have the book Craig references and have read it and it provides sources, but it's boxed up somewhere getting ready to move. I was going to pull it out but I think it's just better for me to bow out of the conversation. The people that know me best know that I'm reasonable and know my heart in loving and accepting and fighting for all wronged people. If I haven't communicated that well that's on me, but on the other hand if a good number of you aren't able to comprehend that you can be genuinely and passionately loving and supportive of people while still having a conviction that they are doing harm to themselves, then I'm not going to convince you.

 

Regardless of different conclusions I'm glad to see that a lot of people seem to be passionate about fighting for the oppressed, because I think that's the real necessity more than anything else.