Gun Control

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

You're being intentionally dense for some reason.

What?  I literally said that gun reform need to be a major part of the solution.  For some reason, you're completely ignoring that.  Why?  Are you being intentionally dense for some reason?

You stated that I said exactly what LaPeirre said.  Did he include gun regulation reform in his statement claiming it's needed?  NO.  So, I didn't say exactly what he said.

[knapplc]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

What?  I literally said that gun reform need to be a major part of the solution.  For some reason, you're completely ignoring that.  Why?  Are you being intentionally dense for some reason?

You stated that I said exactly what LaPeirre said.  Did he include gun regulation reform in his statement claiming it's needed?  NO.  So, I didn't say exactly what he said.

 

I'm sorry I didn't pare out the part of your quote that I wasn't responding to. I thought it was perfectly obvious that I was only responding to some of it, not all of it.

 

Do I need to go back and pare out what I wasn't responding to, or can you use your context skills to catch up?

[sho]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

You're being intentionally dense for some reason.

 

 

I'm saying you need to show your work. If it's ALSO mental illness, you need to show why this doesn't happen in other countries. Or you need to show that America has greater incidence of mental illness.

 

If it was a mental health issue it would happen everywhere. It's only happening here, so what's the difference? The difference is the guns.

 

There's as much evidence that motor vehicles cause these mass slayings as mental health. Or eating breakfast, or watching TV. Every one of those shooters did every one of those things leading up to the shootings.

 

Correlation does not equal causation. And we have direct quotes from the NRA in response to yet another mass shooting

 

 

 

It DOES happen in other countries, just not to the level even close the US.   Difference?   Different fascination with gun culture, better healthcare systems, and more restrictions to access guns, limiting those w/mental illness to obtain one.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, sho said:

 

It DOES happen in other countries, just not to the level even close the US.   Difference?   Different fascination with gun culture, better healthcare systems, and more restrictions to access guns, limiting those w/mental illness to obtain one.

 

Show your work. Show the study(ies) that show it's a mental healthcare crisis, and not a talking point that sprung on the scene ten years ago when the NRA needed to distract from the real problem.

 

It's an insidious allegation because it seems likely to be true. You have to give them credit.

[walksalone]

Guys, you're not going to win an argument with someone who's convinced they're right.  No matter what you say, your talking points to back it up, you are wrong, and they are right.  If they're not willing to listen to you, and respond like you're beneath them, there's no point.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I'm sorry I didn't pare out the part of your quote that I wasn't responding to. I thought it was perfectly obvious that I was only responding to some of it, not all of it.

 

Do I need to go back and pare out what I wasn't responding to, or can you use your context skills to catch up?

 

I don't need to do that because my response is reasonable.  Maybe you need to reconsider your hard line of only in one direction.

 

Maybe you should consider someone's complete statement when you decide to go off on them claiming they are dense.  Wouldn't that be the reasonable thing to do?

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

He should realize he's running in a party that has done absolutely nothing to aid improving mental healthcare in America.  In fact, they are worked the opposite direction.

 

This is the mantra they bring out during times like this after a tragedy.  Then....forget about it.

He doesn't care. His handlers are telling him what to say and think, just like every other legislator.

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

It's the guns. Every country has people with mental disorders. America is unique in its access to guns, and thus gun violence like we saw yesterday.

It's both. There are other first world countries with significant quantities of guns, who still don't have these problems.

 

America's real issue is a gun cult, and poor healthcare.

[knapplc]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I don't need to do that because my response is reasonable.  Maybe you need to reconsider your hard line of only in one direction.

 

Maybe you should consider someone's complete statement when you decide to go off on them claiming they are dense.  Wouldn't that be the reasonable thing to do?

 

I don't have a hard line, and I've agreed in the past that mental health may play a role. I don't know why you decide to sink your teeth in like that, but when you do it gets utterly pedantic.

 

I'm saying that blaming mental health is a (documented!) NRA tactic, that there is no documented link between mental health care and mass shootings. When that study comes out we can change tactics. But until we have that data, let's focus on the guns.

 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, ZRod said:

It's both. There are countries I. Europe with similar access to guns, who still don't have these problems.

 

America's real issue is a gun cult, and poor healthcare.

 

What are countries with "good healthcare" doing to prevent gun violence that America isn't? How do they identify the individuals who are going to shoot up malls or schools?

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

I don't have a hard line, and I've agreed in the past that mental health may play a role. I don't know why you decide to sink your teeth in like that, but when you do it gets utterly pedantic.

 

I'm saying that blaming mental health is a (documented!) NRA tactic, that there is no documented link between mental health care and mass shootings. When that study comes out we can change tactics. But until we have that data, let's focus on the guns.

 

WTF dude????

I say it's a problem with guns and a better mental health care can be a big part of the solution.

 

You go off on me claiming I'm blaming it all on mental health and I'm being dense because I'm blaming it all on mental health....bla bla bla.....Then, you say the bolded.  WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT I SAID!!!

 

Get over yourself on this and have a discussion instead of whatever crap you've been spewing the last couple posts.

[knapplc]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

You go off on me claiming I'm blaming it all on mental health and I'm being dense because I'm blaming it all on mental health

 

This is not what I said. You keep misrepresenting what I'm saying and you're smarter than this.

 

You claim I said:

  

34 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, LaPierre says that guns are a major part of the problem and comprehensive gun regulations need to be part of the solution?

 

When clearly that's not the part of your post I was responding to. I was responding to this part of your post:

  

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

People also need to realize access to mental health help and recognizing when it's a problem in a person is also a large part of the problem.

 

Which was obvious in context because I included an excerpt from a study showing mental health is not a significant factor in gun violence.

 

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Get over yourself on this and have a discussion instead of whatever crap you've been spewing the last couple posts.

 

If you would stop intentionally misunderstanding what I'm saying, this would be a much better discussion.

[walksalone]

22 minutes ago, walksalone said:

Guys, you're not going to win an argument with someone who's convinced they're right.  No matter what you say, your talking points to back it up, you are wrong, and they are right.  If they're not willing to listen to you, and respond like you're beneath them, there's no point.

 

The defense rests...

[ZRod]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

What are countries with "good healthcare" doing to prevent gun violence that America isn't? How do they identify the individuals who are going to shoot up malls or schools?

You don't even have to identify them. You just need to give people access to the care they need. I don't think you would argue that we do a terrible job at that.

 

Again healthcare is only one part of the puzzle. The gun cult in this country is another massive part.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, ZRod said:

You don't even have to identify them. You just need to give people access to the care they need. I don't think you would argue that we do a terrible job at that.

 

Again healthcare is only one part of the puzzle. The gun cult in this country is another massive part.

 

 

Occam's Razor says that the mental healthcare in those countries isn't doing some utterly unidentifiable, but entirely successful, treatment.

 

Mental health professionals, like all sciences, share their work. They aren't hoarding the secret to stopping mass shootings.

 

I agree that healthcare is only one part of the puzzle - but it's an esoteric part.

 

The gun cult is THE primary part. We can make our car run a little better if we change the spark plugs, but replacing the four blown out tires would be a better fix, wouldn't it?