The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Landlord]

2 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

What people do you talk to that want property and production to be owned by the state? I don't know of progressives who want this.

 

 

I'm not talking about people defined by the specific policies they want, but rather by the same underlying philosophy/perspective that's defined by class warfare, ideological purity, resentment towards capitalism, the state as the solution vs the individual, and so on. They think very similarly at a fundamental level even if they don't have all the same policy beliefs.

 

Anyways, this is spiraling into a different conversation; the only point of my initial post was that as a matter of efficacy, there are reasons why very progressive leftist parties/platforms don't often succeed.

[Moiraine]

32 minutes ago, Landlord said:

I'm not talking about people defined by the specific policies they want, but rather by the same underlying philosophy/perspective that's defined by class warfare, ideological purity, resentment towards capitalism, the state as the solution vs the individual, and so on. They think very similarly at a fundamental level even if they don't have all the same policy beliefs.

 

Anyways, this is spiraling into a different conversation; the only point of my initial post was that as a matter of efficacy, there are reasons why very progressive leftist parties/platforms don't often succeed.

 

 

The policies on how to fix these perceived problems matter a lot though, and you started out by talking about death. I think you're quite wrong about this and you haven't put together a very good argument at all. Wanting there to not be such a huge wealth gap and wanting there to be higher taxes for the super wealthy so that everyone can have health care - there are ways to make those happen without getting anywhere close to communism or policies that lead to the famine/death you're talking about. I would argue it wasn't those goals that led to famine, it was the policies - literally taking land and businesses from people and giving them to the government. Progressives are a long way from wanting to do that. If you're going to talk about extremes, you should talk about the extremes people are actually considering right now. Otherwise it isn't relevant.

[Guy Chamberlin]

46 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

I'm not talking about people defined by the specific policies they want, but rather by the same underlying philosophy/perspective that's defined by class warfare, ideological purity, resentment towards capitalism, the state as the solution vs the individual, and so on. They think very similarly at a fundamental level even if they don't have all the same policy beliefs.

 

Anyways, this is spiraling into a different conversation; the only point of my initial post was that as a matter of efficacy, there are reasons why very progressive leftist parties/platforms don't often succeed.

 

We don't have a leftist party in this country. Not even close. There are tiny enclaves of American Socialists and American Communists who run tiny newspapers and unknown candidates. The type of Democratic Socialism you hear from the likes of Sanders and AOC is often very popular -- some would say "populist" -- when presented to Americans on an issue by issue basis.  Because it's populist, there is most definitely a class warfare angle. That scares some of the same people, and it gets hugely amplified by wealthy people who believe in their own brand of wealth distribution. They've done a great job of demonizing anything left of center, which is currently pretty far to the right. The Democratic Party plays in many of the same wealthy circles, and they demonize their own populists. Donald Trump ain't a leftist, that's for sure, but he became President by playing to class resentment.  

[Notre Dame Joe]

7 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

I don't agree. They sometimes have a similar demonization of an "other", but I think two main differences are that one that "other" is usually a minority or a perceived "outside" threat to punch down on (brown immigrants, muslims, jews in nazi germany, etc.), which is distinctly different than punching up at the tyrannical enemy, and two that the right is much more pragmatic about employing the service of or allying with a "those people" who will help them achieve their ends.

 

There's also the whole bootstraps/individual autonomy philosophy where everything is much more individualistic.

 

 

 

 

Mao and Stalin are the two biggest examples of successful (in terms of acquiring power) and extreme left state totalitarianism, so yeah, if the most radical pure left policies win out without balance, there's good historical precedent of that ending very badly (same as on the right).

a demonization of "the other" is not confined to any particular ISM it is a human thing.  Both left and right factions do it so I don't find it relevant to the curious argument that the US hasn't gone left far enough.

[Landlord]

Just now, Notre Dame Joe said:

a demonization of "the other" is not confined to any particular ISM it is a human thing.  Both left and right factions do it so I don't find it relevant to the curious argument that the US hasn't gone left far enough.

 

 

nobody cares

[Notre Dame Joe]

1 minute ago, Landlord said:

 

 

nobody cares

How do think Tara Reade feels this week?

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

How do think Tara Reade feels this week?

 

 

I imagine if she was actually assaulted she's sick of people like you who don't actually care about her, or about women being sexually assaulted, but conveniently use her as ammo in your s#!tty conservative team gun.

[Notre Dame Joe]

4 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

I imagine if she was actually assaulted she's sick of people like you who don't actually care about her, or about women being sexually assaulted, but conveniently use her as ammo in your s#!tty conservative team gun.

She came forward during an election because she did NOT want it to be political, okay. .  . 

 

But actually you should be happy.  She's been instantly forgotten already in light of the latest Biden scandal.  

[BigRedBuster]

 

[FrantzHardySwag]

56 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

But, Trump says Obama didn't personally hold his hand for 3.5 years, how could he possibly have done his job if Obama didn't walk him entirely through his first term. /s

[Guy Chamberlin]

5 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

 

But actually you should be happy.  She's been instantly forgotten already in light of the latest Biden scandal.  

 

You do realize that Donald Trump just makes s#!t up, right?

[TGHusker]

Biden struggles verbally. .. again 

Seems we have a race to the bottom.  Trump's numbers are sagging (good thing) but Biden isn't able to build

a strong perception of leadership as a result. 

 

We have one poll showing 23% of Repubs would like the GOP nominate someone other than Trump

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/23_of_republicans_think_gop_should_nominate_someone_other_than_trump

 

 

 

[teachercd]

Howard Stern comes out and rips his fans that vote for Trump...and now the nutbars on the view love Stern.  Amazing!

[FrantzHardySwag]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Biden struggles verbally. .. again 

Seems we have a race to the bottom.  Trump's numbers are sagging (good thing) but Biden isn't able to build

a strong perception of leadership as a result. 

 

We have one poll showing 23% of Repubs would like the GOP nominate someone other than Trump

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/23_of_republicans_think_gop_should_nominate_someone_other_than_trump

 

 

 

I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from a 30s clip from a far right news source. I know there are people who intake a lot of Biden's comments from the debates and watch his interviews in entirety and come to the conclusion he's lost a step, and that's fine. But the people that watch  a cherry picked 30 second clip posted by 'TRUMP LIBERTY BONER' on twitter and assume his brain is melting are truly annoying. What did you think of the other 44 minutes and 30 seconds of that round table by the way?

[teachercd]

4 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from a 30s clip from a far right news source. I know there are people who intake a lot of Biden's comments from the debates and watch his interviews in entirety and come to the conclusion he's lost a step, and that's fine. But the people that watch  a cherry picked 30 second clip posted by 'TRUMP LIBERTY BONER' on twitter and assume his brain is melting are truly annoying. What did you think of the other 44 minutes and 30 seconds of that round table by the way?

Does it really matter?

 

I mean...if an ER surgeon is awesome for 44 minutes and 30 seconds of an operation but horrible for 30 seconds are you like...Dude, still did a bang up job!

 

If a truck driver is an awesome driver for all but 30 seconds do you still praise him?

 

It is okay to be concerned about his mushy mind, it isn't the end of the world.  His team needs to do a better job of limiting his time on camera and/or he needs to work on simple soundbites that he can use with ease until he wins.