Sexism - It's a Real Thing

[BigRedBuster]

Oh...this guy is golden.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Moiraine]

6 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Oh...this guy is golden.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think much has changed in how we treat victims or the accused when the victim is a teenager or younger. I don't remember a time when people who had sex with 15 year olds weren't shunned, except if they were 18 or younger themselves. He's doing whatever he can to try to make himself not look like s#!t.

[Landlord]

Remember the world's obsession and normalization of the countdown clock to when the Olsen twins turned 18? 

 

 

 

Think something like that would fly without a lot of controversy in 2019? 

[Moiraine]

10 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Remember the world's obsession and normalization of the countdown clock to when the Olsen twins turned 18? 

 

 

 

Think something like that would fly without a lot of controversy in 2019? 

 

 

 

I think more people would be vocal against it, but that doesn’t change my opinion that people’s reactions haven’t changed when it comes to adults having sex with anyone under 18. And that’s what Acosta is talking about. He’s not talking about someone joking about wanting to bang teenagers as soon as they’re legal. Never in my lifetime do I recall a time when people weren’t outraged when that happened. It always ends up in the news and the adult is shamed. E.g. there have always been stories of teachers having inappropriate relationships with their teenaged students and I don’t recall ever thinking people weren’t making a big deal out of it. There are always going to be a minority of people who think it’s not a big deal but that’s still the case now.

 

People do react differently now (which is for the good) when the victims are adult, and for lesser misdeeds like sexual harrassment. No one is arguing that that’s not the case, though. 

[TGHusker]

Here is an interesting OPED on the Pence Rule or the Billy Graham rule.  I cannot find the post where this was discussed originally.

 

https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/believe-all-women-makes-the-pence-rule-just-common-sense/

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Here is an interesting OPED on the Pence Rule or the Billy Graham rule.  I cannot find the post where this was discussed originally.

 

https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/believe-all-women-makes-the-pence-rule-just-common-sense/

 

 

Yes. On one hand we want to say that this is utterly ridiculous and puritanical, but on the other hand it's strategically smart.  This is the GOP saying "if you are going to believe every allegation a woman makes against a man, we can't allow any "he said/she said" scenario. They get to marginalize women even more under the cloak of #metoo compliance. 

 

But it's an interesting conundrum for both sides. Liberals are afraid to call out muslims for gender practices they find appalling, and conservatives are afraid to admit how much they have in common with Sharia Law.

[Nebfanatic]

8 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yes. On one hand we want to say that this is utterly ridiculous and puritanical, but on the other hand it's strategically smart.  This is the GOP saying "if you are going to believe every allegation a woman makes against a man, we can't allow any "he said/she said" scenario. They get to marginalize women even more under the cloak of #metoo compliance. 

 

But it's an interesting conundrum for both sides. Liberals are afraid to call out muslims for gender practices they find appalling, and conservatives are afraid to admit how much they have in common with Sharia Law.

What about a he said he said scenario? Funny how this rule doesn't apply to men. The rule is utterly ridiculous and not smart at all. We just assume since you are a women you will accuse the man of misconduct? Absolutely ridiculous. How about we look at this woman as a reporter doing her job and not as a sexual object that could potentially harm a career with false accusations. 

[TGHusker]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yes. On one hand we want to say that this is utterly ridiculous and puritanical, but on the other hand it's strategically smart.  This is the GOP saying "if you are going to believe every allegation a woman makes against a man, we can't allow any "he said/she said" scenario. They get to marginalize women even more under the cloak of #metoo compliance. 

 

But it's an interesting conundrum for both sides. Liberals are afraid to call out muslims for gender practices they find appalling, and conservatives are afraid to admit how much they have in common with Sharia Law.

I think we need to get down to common decency and trust.  There are those exceptions which are rare when someone falsely accuses and as @Nebfanatic says above, there is also the other twist (male false accusations).  To me it comes down to let professional people be professional.  The congressman should have let the reporter ride in the car and interview him - it was probably a dodge regardless and doubtful he was going alone anyway.  Most people will do and will conduct themselves in a professional manner - we have to trust people to do so even as we expect others to trust us to do the same.  Have I seen someone wrongly accused, yes - but the truth eventually came out.   It is a rare occurrence.

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Liberals are afraid to call out muslims for gender practices they find appalling

 

 

They shouldn't be. You can make absolutely sure Sharia law never happens, and strongly condemn genital mutilation and any other sexist beliefs, while not being bigoted toward Arabs or Muslims. There are Muslims who don't believe in all of those things. Just like there are Christians who don't believe in every practice that is mentioned as okay in the Bible.

[Landlord]

8 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

They shouldn't be. You can make absolutely sure Sharia law never happens, and strongly condemn genital mutilation and any other sexist beliefs, while not being bigoted toward Arabs or Muslims. There are Muslims who don't believe in all of those things. Just like there are Christians who don't believe in every practice that is mentioned as okay in the Bible.

 

 

You're right about they shouldn't be, but Guy is right that they are. I'm not at all one to take any stock in persecution of Christianity in America or anything ridiculous like that, but liberal ideology loves to take potshots at American Christian religion and churches and all their ills, but the percentage of practicing Christians/churches who are "on the team" with regards to race or LGBTQ stuff, etc. is WAY bigger than the percentage of Muslims/mosques that aren't severly homophobic or have serious gender equality problems in their ideologies. BUT, those are minorities so the threshold of willingness to criticize a way of life is much much higher.

[RedDenver]

22 hours ago, Landlord said:

the percentage of practicing Christians/churches who are "on the team" with regards to race or LGBTQ stuff, etc. is WAY bigger than the percentage of Muslims/mosques that aren't severly homophobic or have serious gender equality problems in their ideologies

You're going to have to show some evidence for those claims. Sounds a lot like you're just going on stereotypes.

[Landlord]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

You're going to have to show some evidence for those claims. Sounds a lot like you're just going on stereotypes.

 

 

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-homosexuality/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Public_opinion_among_Muslims

 

In 2013, the Pew Research Center conducted a study on the global acceptance of homosexuality and found a widespread rejection of homosexuality in many nations that are predominantly Muslim. In some countries, views were becoming more conservative among younger people.[187]

 

A 2007 survey of British Muslims showed that 61% believe homosexuality should be illegal, with up to 71% of young British Muslims holding this belief.[189] A later Gallup poll in 2009 showed that none of the 500 British Muslims polled believed homosexuality to be "morally acceptable". This compared with 35% of the 1001 French Muslims polled that did.[190] In a 2016 ICM poll of 1,081 British Muslims, 52% of those polled disagreed with the statement 'Homosexuality should be legal in Britain' while 18% agreed. In the same poll, 56% of British Muslims polled disagreed with the statement 'Gay marriage should be legal in Britain' compared with 20% of the control group and 47% disagreed with the statement 'It is acceptable for a homosexual person to be a teacher in a school' compared with 14% of the control group.[191]
According to a 2012 poll, 51% of the Turks in Germany, who account for nearly two thirds of the total Muslim population in Germany,[192] believe that homosexuality is an illness.[193]
American Muslims - in line with general public attitudes in the United States - have become much more accepting of homosexuality over recent years. In a 2007 poll conducted by Pew Research Center, only 27% of American Muslims believed that homosexuality should be accepted. In a 2011 poll, that rose to 39%. In a July 2017 poll, Muslims who say homosexuality should be accepted by society clearly outnumber those who say it should be discouraged (52% versus 33%), a level of acceptance similar to U.S. Protestants (52% in 2016).[194]

 

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/muslim/views-about-same-sex-marriage/opposestrongly-oppose/

 

 

 

 

Also, look up how many gay affirming mosques there are. Last I checked there's something like less than 12 in the world. 

[RedDenver]

16 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

Also, look up how many gay affirming mosques there are. Last I checked there's something like less than 12 in the world. 

Looks like your own links say the attitude among Muslims is changing just like it is for Christians, which doesn't match the "WAY bigger percentage" you claimed in the earlier post.

Quote

American Muslims - in line with general public attitudes in the United States - have become much more accepting of homosexuality over recent years. In a 2007 poll conducted by Pew Research Center, only 27% of American Muslims believed that homosexuality should be accepted. In a 2011 poll, that rose to 39%. In a July 2017 poll, Muslims who say homosexuality should be accepted by society clearly outnumber those who say it should be discouraged (52% versus 33%), a level of acceptance similar to U.S. Protestants (52% in 2016).[194]

 

[Landlord]

Attitudes in America among Muslims are changing, yes. A trend has nothing to do with current percentage disparity, and I didn't say anything to the contrary. The wiki comparison number (which I can't find the specific source of) is only among Protestants. It's unclear if that includes evangelicals, but it doesn't include Catholics, Orthodox Christians or any other sects of Christianity which would make that number presumably rise. 

 

Even all that aside, that's just the prevailing sentiments among citizens. Actual institutional embracing of this stuff is slower, which is why I brought up LGBTQ friendly mosques. You can have gay weddings in lots of churches all over the place. There's maybe two mosques in America where that would be safe and allowed. Obviously there are far fewer muslims and fewer mosques overall, but then again, I wasn't only referring to America with my first claim anyways (sorry if that wasn't clear).