Racism - It's a real thing.

[BigRedBuster]

6 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

It said in the tweet that there needs to be accountability for that event.... Who is alive that could possibly be held accountable?

 

Imagine that, huh....

Did you read @TGHusker post above yours?

[B.B. Hemingway]

41 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Did you read @TGHusker post above yours?

 

Yes, as I mentioned, I have read on the whole thing a decent amount. It's sad, and unfortunate. Although, his last sentence or so is a typical, probably lazy at this point, excuse to explain away the crime rate within black communities.

[TGHusker]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Yes, as I mentioned, I have read on the whole thing a decent amount. It's sad, and unfortunate. Although, his last sentence or so is a typical, probably lazy at this point, excuse to explain away the crime rate within black communities.

Who you calling lazy or using an excuse?? You are missing the point. There are many contributing factors for north Tulsa crime. I don’t make excuses but my point stands: Generational poverty contributes to hopelessness which contributes to crime. Discussing the cause of crime would take a much larger discussion and that wasn’t the focus of my post. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, TGHusker said:

Who you calling lazy or using an excuse?? You are missing the point. There are many contributing factors for north Tulsa crime. I don’t make excuses but my point stands: Generational poverty contributes to hopelessness which contributes to crime. Discussing the cause of crime would take a much larger discussion and that wasn’t the focus of my post. 

 

Generational poverty may contribute to crime, but it seems to be only seen as a viable excuse for the black community. I don't like the excuse for any race. Being poor sucks, I grew up that way as a kid, but nothing about being poor makes you commit crimes, especially ones violent in nature.

[knapplc]

51 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Generational poverty may contribute to crime, but it seems to be only seen as a viable excuse for the black community. I don't like the excuse for any race. Being poor sucks, I grew up that way as a kid, but nothing about being poor makes you commit crimes, especially ones violent in nature.

 

You are mistaking explanations for excuses. You are also ignoring vast swathes of the country where generational poverty exists in non-Black communities. The same arguments are made there, but that's being ignored in favor of a lazy talking point.

 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

8 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

You are mistaking explanations for excuses. You are also ignoring vast swathes of the country where generational poverty exists in non-Black communities. The same arguments are made there, but that's being ignored in favor of a lazy talking point.

 

 

 

I referenced non-black poverty in other communities, so it wasn't ignored. I understand *why* poverty may lead to crime, but it still doesn't excuse it. There are plenty of poor people (the vast majority) that don't commit crimes.

[knapplc]

47 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I referenced non-black poverty in other communities, so it wasn't ignored. I understand *why* poverty may lead to crime, but it still doesn't excuse it. There are plenty of poor people (the vast majority) that don't commit crimes.

 

Yes, lip service was paid to not focusing on Blacks, but posting history and what was lead with speaks volumes. "It seems to be only a viable excuse for the Black community" is wrong, and the next sentence doesn't obviate that. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Yes, lip service was paid to not focusing on Blacks, but posting history and what was lead with speaks volumes. "It seems to be only a viable excuse for the Black community" is wrong, and the next sentence doesn't obviate that. 

 

Greenwood, a black community, was the topic on hand. Why would I not lead with that?

[deedsker]

We have all broke laws, it just whether they are enforced or not and whether they lead to knock on effects for people's livelihood. 

 

https://www.rd.com/list/weird-laws/

Quote

Using a fake name online

 Famously, one Rhode Island prison guard famously had to pay a $500 fine for setting up a fake Facebook page of his boss.

Having a few too many drinks

Public intoxication is usually a misdemeanor, but state laws vary. In Texas, for instance, the Class C misdemeanor of being drunk in public could mean a fine up to $500.

Sitting on the sidewalk

About 53 percent of American cities—including Santa Cruz, California, and Virginia Beach, Virginia—have laws against sitting or lying down in public, according to a report by the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty.

Not getting a dog license

Prices and rules vary from state to state, but most require a dog license so owners can prove that their canine is up to date on their rabies vaccinations. 

Throwing away an old cell phone

Before tossing your cracked cell phone make sure to research if it’s illegal in your state and how you should properly dispose of it so you don’t get fined.

 

Depending on the crime and what the charge is, this can lead to a criminal record and inability to pay fines. The inability to pay fines then becomes the criminalization of being poor. Tack on the fact that most people don't have the financial well being to handle an unexpected expense, most of America would be ripe for being plunged into poverty based on a criminal charge (warranted or not).

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/success/1000-emergency-expense/index.html

 

Quote

Just 39% of Americans would be able to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense, according to a new report from Bankrate.com.

 

Add to the equation the over policing of low-income individuals and you have  a situation that is ripe for cyclical poverty based on criminalization (warranted or not). Then, if you are charged with criminal activity, it usually precludes you from the vast majority of employment opportunities.

 

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304851

Quote

Results. Overall, police-related death rates were highest in neighborhoods with the greatest concentrations of low-income residents (vs high-income residents) and residents of color (vs non-Hispanic White residents). For non-Hispanic Blacks, however, the risk was greater in the quintile of neighborhoods with the highest concentration of non-Hispanic White residents than in certain neighborhoods with relatively higher concentrations of residents of color (the third and fourth quintiles).

 

It is not hard to see the system that creates cyclical poverty waiting for an impetus. This impetus could be mundane (jaywalking) all the way up to a societal catastrophic  event (Tulsa domestic terrorism). 

[TGHusker]

12 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Generational poverty may contribute to crime, but it seems to be only seen as a viable excuse for the black community. I don't like the excuse for any race. Being poor sucks, I grew up that way as a kid, but nothing about being poor makes you commit crimes, especially ones violent in nature.

still missing the point.   It isn't cause and effect.  It isn't an excuse.  Many great people overcame poverty to become brilliant success stories.  There are also many wealthy  kids who end up being criminals.   Environments contribute to outcomes but do not predetermine outcomes. 

[TGHusker]

A very good interactive article by the NY Times on the Tulsa Race Massacre

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[B.B. Hemingway]

10 hours ago, TGHusker said:

still missing the point.   It isn't cause and effect.  It isn't an excuse.  Many great people overcame poverty to become brilliant success stories.  There are also many wealthy  kids who end up being criminals.   Environments contribute to outcomes but do not predetermine outcomes. 

  I'm not missing your point, I just disagree with you. There's nothing inherent about poverty that makes you commit a crime. Most poor people don't. 

[teachercd]

11 hours ago, TGHusker said:

still missing the point.   It isn't cause and effect.  It isn't an excuse.  Many great people overcame poverty to become brilliant success stories.  There are also many wealthy  kids who end up being criminals.   Environments contribute to outcomes but do not predetermine outcomes. 

Can you tell me what "environment" means?

[TGHusker]

10 hours ago, teachercd said:

Can you tell me what "environment" means?

all of the inputs that touch our lives - culture, parenting, wealth, poverty, education, etc.   Counter to what @B.B. Hemingway is claiming that I am stating that  these inputs, like poverty, inherently cause some one  to commit a crime, I've said these inputs do not inherently cause crime but can make it more difficult for persons to overcome the influence of criminal forces.  Most people counter the negative affects of poverty with the positive affects of good parenting, good education, good family or community support system or a just strong will for self determination.  Some do not.  So, when children are raised in an environment in which we have poverty, one parent homes, poor schools - that create stronger negative environmental forces that make it more difficult, but not impossible, for that child to overcome. Sometimes govt programs can perpetuate

the problem and make the hole that much deeper to crawl out of  - if generations become overly dependent on the govt at the expense of their own self determination.  That is where the Great Society programs under LBJ when wrong in my opinion.  

[ZRod]

12 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

  I'm not missing your point, I just disagree with you. There's nothing inherent about poverty that makes you commit a crime. Most poor people don't. 

Sure there is. You're hungry and you have no money, no job, no car. What are you going to do?