Racism - It's a real thing.

[Guy Chamberlin]

23 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Fixed your post question.   The next question is how does one go from poor to rich and hopefully staying away from going rich to poor.  

 

Good Lord did you miss the point.  

 

If you are a rich or comfortably middle class white guy, and your skin turns black overnight, you will wake to  find a country that treats you differently in ways small and large, and in situations you hadn't even imagined. 

 

When conservatives insist that racism is simply an anecdotal pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps issue, it proves the point. 

 

I think a lot  of issues in the world are class issues rather than race issues, but race allows you to color-code the bias and it takes on a life of its own.

 

So please don't fix my post. Just answer the question.

 

Would you Archy 1221 rather be black or white? 

[Archy1221]

51 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Good Lord did you miss the point.  

 

If you are a rich or comfortably middle class white guy, and your skin turns black overnight, you will wake to  find a country that treats you differently in ways small and large, and in situations you hadn't even imagined. 

 

When conservatives insist that racism is simply an anecdotal pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps issue, it proves the point. 

 

I think a lot  of issues in the world are class issues rather than race issues, but race allows you to color-code the bias and it takes on a life of its own.

 

So please don't fix my post. Just answer the question.

 

Would you Archy 1221 rather be black or white? 

You are more than welcome to come to my neighborhood anytime you like which has plenty of the following: mixed race couples (Black/white Mexican/White, CA transplants with Mexican heritage, African American families, Indian family’s, 2 Asian couples).   Have had this conversation over drinks with many of them, though not all, none hold the same view as you.  Three of the African couples/mixed couples feel they would probably be treated different if they lived in two distinct areas of my metro.  Currently they feel on par with anyone else in the neighborhood and their employers.  None believe the country is currently inherently racist and we all believe that there is a small amount of racist people in all races of people. 
 

Question: do you or others you know judge the white hillbillies or the poor white unshaven, poorly dressed/neck tattooed sideways hat/low pants person different than your black well dressed decently well off economically CA neighbor?   Full discloser, I most likely would.  Is that because of race or bias towards who looks like a decent member of society. 
 

I didn’t miss your point, just made the better point to help you out.  
 

To answer your question: I only know being the race that I am so I would choose what I currently am.  I would have no problem being black.  I would rather be middle  class or above way more than it matters to me what class of individual I am.  Just don’t want to be Canadian.  
 

 

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You are more than welcome to come to my neighborhood anytime you like which has plenty of the following: mixed race couples (Black/white Mexican/White, CA transplants with Mexican heritage, African American families, Indian family’s, 2 Asian couples).   Have had this conversation over drinks with many of them, though not all, none hold the same view as you.  Three of the African couples/mixed couples feel they would probably be treated different if they lived in two distinct areas of my metro.  Currently they feel on par with anyone else in the neighborhood and their employers.  None believe the country is currently inherently racist and we all believe that there is a small amount of racist people in all races of people. 
 

Question: do you or others you know judge the white hillbillies or the poor white unshaven, poorly dressed/neck tattooed sideways hat/low pants person different than your black well dressed decently well off economically CA neighbor?   Full discloser, I most likely would.  Is that because of race or bias towards who looks like a decent member of society. 
 

I didn’t miss your point, just made the better point to help you out.  
 

To answer your question: I only know being the race that I am so I would choose what I currently am.  I would have no problem being black.  I would rather be middle  class or above way more than it matters to me what class of individual I am.  Just don’t want to be Canadian.  
 

 

Let me add to my answer that in the 60’s or earlier I would rather be white.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

51 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Question: do you or others you know judge the white hillbillies or the poor white unshaven, poorly dressed/neck tattooed sideways hat/low pants person different than your black well dressed decently well off economically CA neighbor?   Full discloser, I most likely would.  Is that because of race or bias towards who looks like a decent member of society. 
 

 

 

I guess we hang out with different people. The decently dressed and well-off blacks and Latinos I know can all tell stories of being treated like the the worst white hillbilly, In situations they did and didn't expect. I have mixed race friends who tell heartbreaking stories about how their children have been treated in their upper class world.  It doesn't come up often over cocktails with the friendly white neighbors, but when they see this racist s#!t on the news, they know exactly what they're talking about. 

 

Honestly, there's a lot of sociological study on both the blatant and subversive effects of systemic racism. Check it out.  

 

If I'm reading it correctly, you think race was a problem prior to the 1960s, but has been pretty well ironed out since then. Suggesting the Black folk still angry and agitating are making too big a deal about the occasional police misunderstanding, or a random U.S. President speaking up on behalf of the Confederacy. 

 

 

[Enhance]

19 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

At some point personal responsibility has to kick in instead relying on the my grandparents and great grandparents did not have an equal opportunity to achieve the American Dream.  When does that excuse no longer apply and becomes up to the individual and their family to better the next generations economic standing?  

100% agree with the bolded.

 

I'm simply pointing out that we have to be cognizant and empathetic to the fact that a several hundred year problem can't simply be fixed by waking up one day and saying "I'm going to make good decisions today," which is the tone that B.B. is very much giving off here and it's ridiculous. If it were that easy, we wouldn't have any problems in the world. This country stacked odds against black people for hundreds of years and the damages it did have been felt for generations to this day. Is it getting better? I think so. But, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

I've spent a lot of time in my life volunteering and mentoring kids... especially a lot of young black men. I'm white, so I can't relate to their experiences personally, but I listen to them. So many people here have no idea how challenging it is to get advice from me or another mentor, and then go home to a family environment where drugs and sex are sold like candy. These kids are constantly being fed conflicting ideals... for the good and bad. It's not easy for them to make the right choices. And choices made by past leaders and governments have fed that beast. Next thing you know, a new generation of bad decision makers is developed.

 

So, when I see people say things like B.B. is saying, it gives off the vibe that they've never really taken the time to get to know the people or understand the actual problem. I'm not casting that aspersion onto B.B. Maybe he has. I don't know him personally. It's just the aura surrounding the word choices is obtuse.

[RedDenver]

 

[ZRod]

9 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I knew you'd get around to David Allan Coe because he is a complete outlier and we both know it lol.

 

It is nowhere near the same music and we both know that to.

 

Dr. Dre, one of the most famous rappers ever, literally had a some that started out like this... B****** ain't sh*t but h*es and tricks, lick on these n*ts and suck the d**k. That alone is quite a bit worse than drinking on a back road hoping to get laid. It's main stream in rap music! Go find me the country music songs that celebrate forcing women to sell their bodies on the street and bring the money back to their P.I.M.P. That behavior is celebrated, and fantasized in rap music, routinely. And you went to David Allan Coe, like I knew you would lol. The difference being that Coe is an outlier, while degrading women, drug use, and murder are routinely the theme of rap music. 

 

This is a hilarious conversation.... Lol

 

And words matter! Imagine how you'd feel in these two exchanges:

 

You mom is finishing up dinner, your dad walks up to her, puts his arms around her and whispers something in her ear about what they're going to do that night in the bedroom. Maybe he gets her a little slap on the butt. He smiles, she giggles.....

That's misogyny in country music.

 

And now this.....

 

Your mom is finishing up the dishes after dinner, your dad walks in, throws his half eaten plate of food at your mom, calls her a sl*t, punches her in the face, and demands she gets him off in the kitchen immediately.... That's misogyny in rap music.

 

But, hey. I guess they both just had sex with their wives in the end, right!

P.I.M.P. by 50 cent was 18 years ago... Big Pimpin was 21 years ago. If we're gonna go back: Garth Brooks sings about f#&%ing a cougar, a one night stand with a girl from Baton Rouge, Mom cheating on dad and dad running her and the lover over with a semi, a drunk crashing a party. Fancy talks about a mom making her daughter become a prostitute. Willie sings about loving them and leaving them, and picking up hookers instead of his pen

 

Maybe rap and rock are a better comparison then, and country and R&B are closer? Does that work?

[B.B. Hemingway]

12 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

How much rap do you listen to?

 

It's about all i listened to when I was high school. Then I grew up, had my first daughter, and quickly realized it wasn't something a father of a daughter should listen to.

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, ZRod said:

P.I.M.P. by 50 cent was 18 years ago... Big Pimpin was 21 years ago. If we're gonna go back: Garth Brooks sings about f#&%ing a cougar, a one night stand with a girl from Baton Rouge, Mom cheating on dad and dad running her and the lover over with a semi, a drunk crashing a party. Fancy talks about a mom making her daughter become a prostitute. Willie sings about loving them and leaving them, and picking up hookers instead of his pen

 

Maybe rap and rock are a better comparison then, and country and R&B are closer? Does that work?

 

We would be closer to agreeing, yes. 

[Archy1221]

7 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I guess we hang out with different people. The decently dressed and well-off blacks and Latinos I know can all tell stories of being treated like the the worst white hillbilly, In situations they did and didn't expect. I have mixed race friends who tell heartbreaking stories about how their children have been treated in their upper class world.  It doesn't come up often over cocktails with the friendly white neighbors, but when they see this racist s#!t on the news, they know exactly what they're talking about. 

Must suck to live in CA 

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

It's about all i listened to when I was high school. Then I grew up, had my first daughter, and quickly realized it wasn't something a father of a daughter should listen to.

 

So woke people realize that's not something the father of a daughter should listen to.

 

And woke people have the option of turning away from the lifestyle portrayed in that music. Because that wasn't the lifestyle they were immersed in. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

9 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

So woke people realize that's not something the father of a daughter should listen to.

 

And woke people have the option of turning away from the lifestyle portrayed in that music. Because that wasn't the lifestyle they were immersed in. 

 

 

 

Well, the good news for those immersed in that culture is that they can leave that lifestyle at any point they would like to. The sooner, the better, I would imagine.

 

Though, with the way rap music romanticizes that lifestyle, I'm not sure a lot of them do want to get away from it.

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Well, the good news for those immersed in that culture is that they can leave that lifestyle at any point they would like to. The sooner, the better, I would imagine.

 

Though, with the way rap music romanticizes that lifestyle, I'm not sure a lot of them do want to get away from it.

 

When did you leave the inner city and pull yourself up by your bootstraps to become the industry leader you are today?

 

What was it like to just leave your ghetto hood and prosper? How did you do it?

[B.B. Hemingway]

14 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

When did you leave the inner city and pull yourself up by your bootstraps to become the industry leader you are today?

 

What was it like to just leave your ghetto hood and prosper? How did you do it?

 

Well, I'm not sure you'd call it a ghetto, but if you watched the video a few pages back about the people in Appalachia, I grew up around quite a few people like that. We were really poor, living in a crappy trailer. I had/have a wonderful mother (so thankful), but also had an angry, verbally abusive (sometimes physically) father. Drug abusers in the family.... Not deadly violence, but violence nonetheless. 

Lucky for me, I feel like I had a good head on my shoulders, had a great mother (as I mentioned), and found a good woman that became my wife. For those reasons, I did turn out to be more successful than I ever expected to be, I'm proud of it, and I make no apologies for being proud of it. So there's that.

[Archy1221]

4 hours ago, Enhance said:

So many people here have no idea how challenging it is to get advice from me or another mentor, and then go home to a family environment where drugs and sex are sold like candy. These kids are constantly being fed conflicting ideals..

This is something that I believe is the bigger problems and not systemic racism like many (not you) try to make the US sound like.