The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Fair enough, that’s one way to go for sure.  With all the nuclear weapons available and a guaranteed mutually assured destruction with some countries leads to less troops since everyone can blow up everyone else by the press of a button 

Here's another thing.  Kick the f#&%ing lobbyists out of Washington that lobby for the military industrial complex.  This has become such a disgusting circle of disaster that it just needs to stop.

 

We don't need to be buying a fighter jet that costs 82 million each.....and doesn't work.....and still paying the bill.

[Dr. Strangelove]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Care to give examples. 

Sure. In FY2020, the military budget was approximately $686 Billion. Of that, 39.14% of the spending goes towards pay and benefits.

 

Sub-standard housing pay, which Air Force personnel receive if they stay in facilities designated for another branch like the Army, is included but is an example of bloat.

 

Another 9% is dedicated to various healthcare programs for active duty troops. Keep in mind, this is separate from VA spending. Programs like the GI bill are also not included.

 

In total, pay and benefits total nearly 50% of the  budget. Again, VA and GI spending are not included. It is detailed here: https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2020/FY20_Green_Book.pdf

 

As for fraud, there are numerous instances of people I know personally that receive forms of disability pay for things like injuring themselves playing basketball on a overseas military base. I don't want to say this is common, but it happens enough that cases like this are pretty well known within the military and is certainly not rare.

[Archy1221]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

Sure. In FY2020, the military budget was approximately $686 Billion. Of that, 39.14% of the spending goes towards pay and benefits.

 

Sub-standard housing pay, which Air Force personnel receive if they stay in facilities designated for another branch like the Army, is included but is an example of bloat.

 

Another 9% is dedicated to various healthcare programs for active duty troops. Keep in mind, this is separate from VA spending. Programs like the GI bill are also not included.

 

In total, pay and benefits total nearly 50% of the  budget. Again, VA and GI spending are not included. It is detailed here: https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2020/FY20_Green_Book.pdf

 

As for fraud, there are numerous instances of people I know personally that receive forms of disability pay for things like injuring themselves playing basketball on a overseas military base. I don't want to say this is common, but it happens enough that cases like this are pretty well known within the military and is certainly not rare.

So labor costs for military is in line with any large business 

[Dr. Strangelove]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

So labor costs for military is in line with any large business 

Of course labor costs are highest outlay for any organization. 

 

Do all organizations offer generous pensions after 20 years of employment? No.

 

People harp on military spending all the time, but need to understand that for any meaningful cuts, benefits are the only place to do it.

 

Raise the number of years it takes to qualify for a pension, investigate obvious instances of disability fraud, etc. But none of this will happen because it's political suicide to do so, because of voters like yourself. 

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

 

People harp on military spending all the time, but need to understand that for any meaningful cuts, benefits are the only place to do it.

So that means you are also in favor of cuts to Medicare and social security benefits?  

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

 

Raise the number of years it takes to qualify for a pension, investigate obvious instances of disability fraud, etc. But none of this will happen because it's political suicide to do so, because of voters like yourself. 

What exactly do you mean “voters like yourself?”

I’ve been on record saying Military budget can be cut through fraud and waste.  
 

Military is like any other organization in that it needs to entice people with benefits to join and risk their lives to keep others safe.  I’m fine with that.  

[Dr. Strangelove]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

What exactly do you mean “voters like yourself?”

I’ve been on record saying Military budget can be cut through fraud and waste.  
 

Military is like any other organization in that it needs to entice people with benefits to join and risk their lives to keep others safe.  I’m fine with that.  

My argument is that IF you're in favor of reduced military spending, which many claim, you also must understand that benefits and pay are the biggest part of that equation. 

 

When I say voters like yourself, I mean just that. You'll never be in favor of policies that meaningfully reduce military spending because it would inevitably entail cuts to benefits. 

 

My personal opinion would be to increase the number of years of service to qualify for pensions, however I do concede that I'm unsure of the economics. If research shows the government gets back in GDP terms the amount spent on pensions (or any benefit), I would be in favor of keeping them.

 

I am in favor of large debt and deficit spending most of the time, but that's an economic discussion for a PM or separate thread.

[Omaha-Husker]

Left wing AOC and Libertarian Amash both hating how the establishment works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Archy1221]

 

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

So labor costs for military is in line with any large business 

Sure....but we don't need that many people in the military.

 

[Archy1221]

2 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

My argument is that IF you're in favor of reduced military spending, which many claim, you also must understand that benefits and pay are the biggest part of that equation. 

 

When I say voters like yourself, I mean just that. You'll never be in favor of policies that meaningfully reduce military spending because it would inevitably entail cuts to benefits. 

 

My personal opinion would be to increase the number of years of service to qualify for pensions, however I do concede that I'm unsure of the economics. If research shows the government gets back in GDP terms the amount spent on pensions (or any benefit), I would be in favor of keeping them.

 

I am in favor of large debt and deficit spending most of the time, but that's an economic discussion for a PM or separate thread.

Unless I missed it, you still never answers where the benefits are full of fraud comes from.   I’m sure there is some fraud just like every corner of the country.  But full of fraud is a strong statement for military benefits. 

[FrantzHardySwag]

Alright, hear me out. I usually don't agree with the far right, but he is on to something here. We find a way to expose our self to a harmless amount of the virus, and in turn get antibodies to fight the virus. That way no one is put in danger, yet we can go back to normal life. Best part, all his far right followers seem to like the idea as well! Seems like a no brainer!

 

[Moiraine]

15 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Alright, hear me out. I usually don't agree with the far right, but he is on to something here. We find a way to expose our self to a harmless amount of the virus, and in turn get antibodies to fight the virus. That way no one is put in danger, yet we can go back to normal life. Best part, all his far right followers seem to like the idea as well! Seems like a no brainer!

 

 

 

Funny. 

[DevoHusker]

7 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I agree, however, the vast majority of military spending is soldier pay and various benefits. It turns out giving soldiers nearly unlimited benefits is expensive. 

 

It is nearly impossible to cut. Our country has a problem over glorifying the military. While I'm in favor of fair compensation to military members, the benefits are extremely generous and often full of fraud.

I can't speak to the fraud, but unless you plan to bring back the draft, or force conscription, pay and benefits must be above average. How else do you entice able bodied troops to stay past their original 3 or 4 years. If you want qualified experienced soldiers to stay, you have to offer a good pension/retirement opportunities.

[Moiraine]

4 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

My argument is that IF you're in favor of reduced military spending, which many claim, you also must understand that benefits and pay are the biggest part of that equation. 

 

When I say voters like yourself, I mean just that. You'll never be in favor of policies that meaningfully reduce military spending because it would inevitably entail cuts to benefits. 

 

My personal opinion would be to increase the number of years of service to qualify for pensions, however I do concede that I'm unsure of the economics. If research shows the government gets back in GDP terms the amount spent on pensions (or any benefit), I would be in favor of keeping them.

 

I am in favor of large debt and deficit spending most of the time, but that's an economic discussion for a PM or separate thread.

 

 

Can you show us these numbers? I’m seeing personnel (pay and benefits) as 23% of the budget and is the 2nd highest spending category.