What is the future of the Republican Party?

[TGHusker]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

I think we are f#&%ed and it’s only a matter of time, and there is no turning back. I think there’s a 50% chance we will be like Russia (best case) by 2050.

I guess Rush spoke about 'succession' the other day on the radio.  I didn't hear it but a news article spoke of it.    So we divide into 3 countries - west coast, NE and the rest. 

 

Some Russian political analysis saw the USA breaking up into 8 countries a few years back.  Perhaps Putin is pushing this idea by his interference into our country.

 

 

[Redux]

6 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Sounds simple and that was the original thought of the framers.  But things quickly evolved into the Hamilton wing of politics and the Jeffersonian wing of politics.  The ruckus election of 1800 was the result.  Adams out, Jefferson in.

 

And here we are in 2020, people frothing for civil war because of partisanship.

[Scarlet]

47 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Republicans are welcome to show proof that they don't want their party to be this, but 70 million of them voting for trump, re-electing toads like McConnell & Graham over and over, not to mention Sasse, Fischer, Fartenberry, etc. doesn't provide any proof they feel bad about what their party has become.

 

It's clear that party is what it is because that's what the constituents want. And that's why tons of people, like me, left that party and will never go back.

 

This is really at the crux of my question.  I know a lot of people that feel this way too and I sense as more and more are muzzled by Trumpsters for having different ideas, that they too will leave. If that happens does the party find itself on the outside looking in.  Or once Trump is gone and someone with the same ideals but a slicker persona, takes the mantle do they return in fear of "socialism" and the slide into authoritarianism continues.  I guess we're at a fork in the road now.

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

 

This is really at the crux of my question.  I know a lot of people that feel this way too and I sense as more and more are muzzled by Trumpsters for having different ideas, that they too will leave. If that happens does the party find itself on the outside looking in.  Or once Trump is gone and someone with the same ideals but a slicker persona, takes the mantle do they return in fear of "socialism" and the slide into authoritarianism continues.  I guess we're at a fork in the road now.

 

It really depends where they get their information. If they continue to consume right-wing news, they'll continue to believe Democrats are actually Socialists, and that socialism itself is the epitome of evil, and they'll come back. Facebook, Fox News, Rush, etc are the tether that binds those people to that crumbling party. If they shake loose from those sources, they'll likely realize they have no need for the Republican party, and go Independent.

[DevoHusker]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

Republicans are welcome to show proof that they don't want their party to be this, but 70 million of them voting for trump, re-electing toads like McConnell & Graham over and over, not to mention Sasse, Fischer, Fartenberry, etc. doesn't provide any proof they feel bad about what their party has become.

 

It's clear that party is what it is because that's what the constituents want. And that's why tons of people, like me, left that party and will never go back.

 

You do realize, I know, that (other than the very visible Trump issue) most Repubs don't feel McConnell and Graham are toads. They want them re-elected due to their policy beliefs. Fischer and Fortenberry have been reelected on super majority votes, because Repubs like their stance and voting record. Sasse has been under fire because he is viewed as "moving left". They have no reason to prove proof they "feel bad" because they don't (again, other than Trump) feel bad about their view or their party. 

[DevoHusker]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

3 countries - west coast, NE and the rest. 

 

Hell yes!!! We Huskers got this 

 

(oh, you meant NorthEast...)

 

carry on 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

You do realize, I know, that (other than the very visible Trump issue) most Repubs don't feel McConnell and Graham are toads. They want them re-elected due to their policy beliefs. Fischer and Fortenberry have been reelected on super majority votes, because Repubs like their stance and voting record. Sasse has been under fire because he is viewed as "moving left". They have no reason to prove proof they "feel bad" because they don't (again, other than Trump) feel bad about their view or their party. 

 

Yes. And that's the problem with Republicans.

 

[DevoHusker]

2 hours ago, TGHusker said:

That narrative is being pushed by Rush and the Fox evening crowd of commentators plus a host of radio commentators.  So yes, the current Trumpists believe fair elections won't occur again.  Fair elections are defined as  "WE WIN,  YOU LOSE"

 

...and the OP stated that the left believes it as well, in mirror view,  which is why I brought it up. It is not simply a "Trumpist" worry.

[knapplc]

Republicans think they won't win a popular vote, specifically for president, not because Biden won in 2020, but because they've lost the popular vote in every election but one since 1992.

 

Source

 

That's not the fault of Biden or the Democrats, that's entirely the fault of the Republican party moving further and further right from center.

 

 

 

 

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

It really depends where they get their information. If they continue to consume right-wing news, they'll continue to believe Democrats are actually Socialists, and that socialism itself is the epitome of evil, and they'll come back. Facebook, Fox News, Rush, etc are the tether that binds those people to that crumbling party. If they shake loose from those sources, they'll likely realize they have no need for the Republican party, and go Independent.

Not to get into the middle of @knapplc and @DevoHusker but this last sentence creates a question within our current framework that I think Devo is getting at.

 

Yes, more and more people may claim to be Independent, but they still will need to vote for a candidate come election time.  An Independent will still have to choose between Graham or the Democrat.  Either that, or they'll "waste" their vote on a third party.  If a person agrees the GOP is crooked, but still agrees with the policies, they plug their nose and vote for the candidate that runs on those policies. Same with the left.

 

If Trump had a Democrat twin running against GOP Trump in 2020, one of them still would have won.  This is a pathetic thought.

 

I think we are screwed until there is a viable 3rd "Centrist" party that enough Independents can join to keep the GOP and Dems at bay...

[commando]

4 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Not to get into the middle of @knapplc and @DevoHusker but this last sentence creates a question within our current framework that I think Devo is getting at.

 

Yes, more and more people may claim to be Independent, but they still will need to vote for a candidate come election time.  An Independent will still have to choose between Graham or the Democrat.  Either that, or they'll "waste" their vote on a third party.  If a person agrees the GOP is crooked, but still agrees with the policies, they plug their nose and vote for the candidate that runs on those policies. Same with the left.

 

If Trump had a Democrat twin running against GOP Trump in 2020, one of them still would have won.  This is a pathetic thought.

 

I think we are screwed until there is a viable 3rd "Centrist" party that enough Independents can join to keep the GOP and Dems at bay...

let's form the  centrist party radicals....or CPR for short.   radicals in the name because it seems that being centrist is the radical position anymore.

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Not to get into the middle of @knapplc and @DevoHusker but this last sentence creates a question within our current framework that I think Devo is getting at.

 

Yes, more and more people may claim to be Independent, but they still will need to vote for a candidate come election time.  An Independent will still have to choose between Graham or the Democrat.  Either that, or they'll "waste" their vote on a third party.  If a person agrees the GOP is crooked, but still agrees with the policies, they plug their nose and vote for the candidate that runs on those policies. Same with the left.

 

If Trump had a Democrat twin running against GOP Trump in 2020, one of them still would have won.  This is a pathetic thought.

 

I think we are screwed until there is a viable 3rd "Centrist" party that enough Independents can join to keep the GOP and Dems at bay...

 

But Republican voters don't agree with a lot of those policies. They agree with some, and often it's just one or two wedge issues like abortion or the 2nd Amendment.

 

The Republican party has leveraged those two issues into decades of presidential power long after they were representative of the majority.

 

We're not so divided. Americans agree on many, many topics:

 

SOURCE
 

Quote

 

“What’s striking is that when citizens think through the issues and hear both sides, they often find common ground–clearly, much more so than Members of Congress,” said Steven Kull, president of Voice of the People and director of the Program for Public Consultation.  

 

The positions on which majorities from both parties agree span a broad swath of America’s most important and contentious issue areas, including police reform, immigration, poverty and jobs, social security, budget and taxes, health care, trade, energy and the environment, nuclear weapons and government reform.

 

“On issue after issue, Americans agree across party lines and are ready to get things done – all these positions are also supported by majorities from both parties in the reddest and bluest Congressional districts, and by primary voters who are typically more partisan,” said Jillian Youngblood, Executive Director of Common Ground Solutions.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

A SELECTION OF COMMON GROUND POSITIONS 

Social Security 

• To address the projected Social Security shortfall and head off reductions in benefits, very large bipartisan majorities favor making reductions in benefits (reducing benefits to the top 25% of earners, gradually raising the retirement age to 68) and increasing taxes (raising the payroll tax from 6.2% to at least 6.6%, and raising the cap on income subject to the payroll tax to $215,000 or more). These steps would eliminate two thirds of the shortfall.
• A more modest bipartisan majority would eliminate the cap on income subject to the payroll tax, which, together with the other steps, eliminates the shortfall entirely. 

Immigration   

• A large bipartisan majority favors giving immigrants who were illegally brought to the US as children legal status and a path to citizenship.
• A bipartisan majority would go further and provide a visa and path to citizenship to all undocumented workers who have been in the US for an extended period.
• Very large bipartisan majorities favor increasing the number of work visas.
• Bipartisan majorities favor more immigration judges to deal with asylum applications.
• To deter further illegal immigration, there is not majority support for a stronger barrier on the southern border – but a large bipartisan majority favors requiring employers to use the E-Verify system to establish the legal status of all their employees and all new applicants. 

Poverty Programs 

• Large bipartisan majorities favor increasing SNAP benefits (aka food stamps), but do not want them to be used for sweetened sodas or candy.
• Bipartisan majorities also favor:
  • making pre-kindergarten available to all 4-year-olds in low-income families
  • raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour
  • expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit 
  • major federal jobs programs in the event of an economic downturn.
• There is bipartisan opposition to a universal basic income of $1,000 a month, and to providing every child with a bond.  

Federal Budget

In a survey in which respondents were given the opportunity to make changes to the federal budget:

• bipartisan majorities made few cuts to spending, except some modest cuts to defense spending and sharp cuts to subsidies to agricultural corporations.
• bipartisan majorities favored raising taxes on individuals with incomes over $200,000 by rolling back the cuts they received in the 2017 tax bill and treating their capital gains and dividends as ordinary income, as well as instituting a financial transaction tax.
• large bipartisan majorities favored a 4% surtax on income over $5 million, a 1% surtax on corporate income over $100 million, and a 0.15% fee on the uninsured debt of financial institutions. 

Energy and the Environment

• A bipartisan majority favors adopting the goal of reducing US greenhouse gas emissions by 2% a year.
• Larger bipartisan majorities favor providing various tax incentives to promote clean energy and greater efficiency in homes and businesses. 
• Bipartisan majorities favor new regulations to require higher fuel efficiency in cars and trucks, and to require electric companies to have a minimum portion of their electricity come from renewable sources.  

Police Reform

• Large bipartisan majorities favored current reform proposals requiring body cameras, making it a duty for officers to intervene when another officer is using excessive force and establishing a national registry for police misconduct.
• Bipartisan majorities favor prohibiting chokeholds, requiring police officers to receive training in implicit racial bias, and incentivizing states to hire an independent prosecutor in cases against an officer.
• Four proposals that Democrats favored had support from less than half of Republicans. Still, a large majority of Republicans said they could tolerate these proposals: 1) requiring officers to be trained in de-escalation and to use deadly force only as a last resort, 2) banning no-knock warrants, 3) amending qualified immunity, and 4) putting greater limits on police departments acquiring military equipment.

Government Reform

Very large bipartisan majorities favor:

• a Constitutional amendment to allow governments greater freedom to regulate campaign financing (thus overturning the Citizens United decision),
• numerous requirements for increasing disclosure of campaign financing
• extending the period of time that former government officials must wait before working as a lobbyist
• making it easier for independent and third-party candidates to compete in elections.

Bipartisan majorities favor

• encouraging more small campaign donations by providing matching funds and tax credits
• countering gerrymandering by having Congressional redistricting done by a citizen commission that is representative of the state. 

Nuclear Weapons

• Very large bipartisan majorities favor extending the New START arms control treaty with Russia and continuing to abide by the moratorium on nuclear testing, while also maintaining at least a minimum nuclear retaliatory capability.
• Bipartisan majorities favor requiring that before any first use of nuclear weapons, the President must first get a declaration of war from Congress.
• Majorities also support, phasing out, rather than replacing land-based missiles, while also developing a low-yield nuclear warhead for submarines.    

International Trade

• Overwhelming bipartisan majorities support continuing to promote international trade through internationally agreed-on rules, with bipartisan majorities specifically favoring continuing U.S. participation in the WTO, having a free trade agreement with Mexico and Canada, and rejoining the TPP.
• To mitigate the negative effects of trade, very large majorities favor including labor and environmental standards in trade agreement to prevent trading partners from undercutting U.S. producers, strengthening the safety net by raising unemployment benefits, and investing greater amounts in training programs that seek to make American workers more competitive in the global market.     

 

 

If people would stop listening to political infotainment we'd be able to jettison political parties.

 

And remember - Republicans and Democrats are not the government. They are private organizations focused on politics. They do not actually represent us, they represent their party.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

19 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Republicans think they won't win a popular vote, specifically for president, not because Biden won in 2020, but because they've lost the popular vote in every election but one since 1992.

It's actually 1988.  

 

I firmly believe that the every day Republicans on the street believe they are the vast majority of Americans and those evil liberals are a minority that the only way they are winning an election is by cheating.  You know...letting those brown people in to our country to vote.

 

I also firmly believe behind the scenes, the people who run the Republican party fully understand that THEY are the MINORITY and it's getting worse.  They know they haven't won a majority since 1988 and they are scared to death because they don't know how to fix it.  So......they do it by gerrymandering and claiming the Libs are cheating and going along with Trump in his "rigged election" claims.

They don't feel they have an option.

[DevoHusker]

23 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Yes, more and more people may claim to be Independent, but they still will need to vote for a candidate come election time.  An Independent will still have to choose between Graham or the Democrat.  Either that, or they'll "waste" their vote on a third party.  If a person agrees the GOP is crooked, but still agrees with the policies, they plug their nose and vote for the candidate that runs on those policies. Same with the left.

 

Yes, this. Thanks @funhusker for being more eloquent in the explanation that I can ever seem to be. 

[TGHusker]

2 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Hell yes!!! We Huskers got this 

 

(oh, you meant NorthEast...)

 

carry on 

Good one.  Yes, I should do it in long hand.