Armstrong Leading the QB Race

[Mavric]

 

Armstrong doesn't have that kind of accuracy, or at least didn't in 2013. most of his successful deep throws were so because Bell or Enunwa made a spectacular catch.

I don't agree with this at all. He has made many very nice deep throws. If you feel the need to criticize something, it's his short passing game that needed the most work.

 

 

I'm not questioning TA's ability to throw the deep ball but papersun is correct. TA completed a pass longer than 30 yards in four games. The one against Illinois was a pretty spectacular catch by Bell. The one against Michigan State - while not a bad throw - still took some pretty good acrobatics on Bell's part to bring it in. Stretching the field wasn't a huge part of our arsenal last year - nor has it been for a few years. Maybe we'll see more of it with TA at the helm.

[zoogs]

Ah, yeah, I do disagree with that. I don't think short passes do anything for us. Unless we are so good at them we can lean on that to carve defenses out of nothing, which, if so, we may as well throw it 40 times a game anyway.

 

I don't think the short pass sets up the run, nor vice versa. If all you have is the run and the short pass, then it's like the Callahan WCO under Zac and Joe. And could it really be possible that we're going to be that good at short passing again? I just don't think it's in the cards for this year, and that starts with scheme.

 

So whoever the QB is, I think it still comes down to whether he brings the vertical threat or not. Now let's say Fyfe or Stanton can throw deep, and can run at least the zone read well, then that opens things up. I'm skeptical otherwise - how often have we seen our offense in recent years complete passes at a respectable rate in the short/intermediate range with 0 YAC, during times when it had no rhythm and was clearly not putting stress on the defense? Then go back to the 2013 games where Tommy may have been missing his deep throws, but the defense were on their heels. It was just a different feel. Not glamorous, but potent. Being a bit better or worse throwing short won't be a game-changer either way IMO.

 

Lastly, I think what's most special about our current group of WRs over the days when we had Purify/Swift/Nunn/Peterson is their ability to take the top off a defense. So if we really want to not put that to waste, we have to have the vertical game.

[kchusker_chris]

 

You just described our offense with Martinez at QB.

 

 

Martinez heaved off that back foot plenty. And his short passes were likely more a product of his lack of progressing through reads. I'd say he described our offense under Cally more than under Martinez. Difference being the QB reads the receiver rather than throwing to a spot the receiver is suppose to be after a 4.5 count.

 

 

(as much as people hate it, the west coast offense was created to compensate for a QBs mediocre ability to pass)

[74Hunter]

 

 

 

You're right, and I hope I'm wrong about Tommy. Nothing I saw last year or so far this year leads me to be very optimistic. Time will tell.

 

i guess i just wonder what you expected from him?

 

i was pretty impressed with him. thought he showed a lot of promise. a lot of natural ability and good pocket presence. his short comings seem to be common for freshman qbs.

Better than a 52% completion rate, better than 3 YPC, better than a 1 to 1 TD/ INT ratio, and not putting the ball all over the carpet.

I don't care if he's a freshman or 5th year senior, those numbers have to be better.especially with all of the hype we've heard about him.

I guess I don't understand the criticisms given the previous guy put the ball all over the carpet more than anyone in our history. At least let him get through a few games this year to see if the game has slowed down for him. If the guy is able to manage the game and run the option once in a while that may be all we need. If one of the other guys steps up and gets the job done better then so be it.

True, but the previous guy was able to complete better than 52%, had better than 3 YPC and a 1/ 1 TD/ INT ratio. He also was able to make huge plays and almost single handedly won quite a few games for us.

 

I can't think of one thing about Armstrong's game that impresses me from what we've seen.

[Warrior10]

 

 

I don't agree with this at all. He has made many very nice deep throws. If you feel the need to criticize something, it's his short passing game that needed the most work.

 

 

He only has 11 passes that went for more than 25 yards, not really enough to say one way or the other.

 

The Illinois catch by Bell was an overthrown ball that was a pick if Bell doesn't 1 hand that thing out of nowhere. (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9774041)

There was the 99 yarder by Enunwa against Georgia. Fumbled snap, almost takes a saftey, then he throws a bomb to a wide open Enunwa. Great throw/catch.

He had a couple against Michigan which I couldn't find video of.

Then there's this one - which you could debate all day whether it was a good throw. It was underthrown by that's why Bell got it. Great catch either way (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9988268)

He definitely underthrew the one to Burtch here - he was just so wide open it didn't matter. Probably a higher percentage pass to underthrow hime (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9987043)

 

Good and fair analysis. +1

[hskrfan4life]

All I want to see is if Fyfe is the best QB we have, then put him out there. I just want the best players to play, it honestly doesn't piss me off or upset me if Armstrong gets unseated from being the starter.

[Mavric]

 

 

My point is that unless we have the second coming of Zac Taylor or Joe Ganz here as well as that level of sophistication in our passing game again - which we haven't - that does our offense no good.

 

I think we're talking about two different things. I'm not saying we should throw it 40 times per game. I'm saying we should run the ball often - probably even more than have have recently which is quite a bit. But when we do throw, throw short, quick passes that we can complete at a high percentage and let the receivers do the work after that. It doesn't have to be fancy, just effective. We still need to take shots down the field from time to time but if that is the best part of our passing game, we'll be in trouble.

 

You just described our offense with Martinez at QB.

 

 

Yeah. An offense that is always in the Top 20 in rushing - if not the Top 10 - with a QB that completes 60% of his passes or better is just fine with me. Minus the turnovers, of course.

[The Dude]

It beggars belief that we are even discussing this. Armstrong was using a cart to get around this time last year.

 

 

 

 

To go from that to 7-1 as a starter (6-1 if you give Northwestern to RKIII) is a damned fine job.

 

 

Let the guy show us what he has in games this year before we start fabricating "not good enough" arguments against him.

Did you take this picture, knapp?

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Armstrong doesn't have that kind of accuracy, or at least didn't in 2013. most of his successful deep throws were so because Bell or Enunwa made a spectacular catch.

I don't agree with this at all. He has made many very nice deep throws. If you feel the need to criticize something, it's his short passing game that needed the most work.

 

 

I'm not questioning TA's ability to throw the deep ball but papersun is correct. TA completed a pass longer than 30 yards in four games. The one against Illinois was a pretty spectacular catch by Bell. The one against Michigan State - while not a bad throw - still took some pretty good acrobatics on Bell's part to bring it in. Stretching the field wasn't a huge part of our arsenal last year - nor has it been for a few years. Maybe we'll see more of it with TA at the helm.

 

This is a stat or fact that is almost impossible to research. Sure, we can look at various QBs and see how many games they had a pass longer than 30 yards. But, does that take into account how often they had a 15-20 yard pass go 60 yards for a TD...or how many times a 30-40 yard pass was dropped?

 

TA needed to improve on his passing all the way around...and he will. However, I remember specifically the South Dakota State game where about all he could complete were longer passes down field. He went 12 for 15 with passes of 28, 33,24 and 31 yards. I would consider those long enough to stretch the defense.

 

Again, he needs to improve. But, Martinez by the time he left was much better at the short passing game than TA was last year. (Not a shocker comparing a senior to a Freshman). But, I'm pointing that out as his short game has major room for improvement.

 

And...just going off of memory, I remember a number of his interceptions were actually in the short passing. If someone can find that stat I would be interest in seeing it. I have no clue where to look.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

I don't agree with this at all. He has made many very nice deep throws. If you feel the need to criticize something, it's his short passing game that needed the most work.

 

 

He only has 11 passes that went for more than 25 yards, not really enough to say one way or the other.

 

The Illinois catch by Bell was an overthrown ball that was a pick if Bell doesn't 1 hand that thing out of nowhere. (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9774041)

There was the 99 yarder by Enunwa against Georgia. Fumbled snap, almost takes a saftey, then he throws a bomb to a wide open Enunwa. Great throw/catch.

He had a couple against Michigan which I couldn't find video of.

Then there's this one - which you could debate all day whether it was a good throw. It was underthrown by that's why Bell got it. Great catch either way (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9988268)

He definitely underthrew the one to Burtch here - he was just so wide open it didn't matter. Probably a higher percentage pass to underthrow hime (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9987043)

 

I'm not sure I know of an NFL QB that the receiver sometimes doesn't have to make an acrobatic catch on passes longer than 30 yards.

 

Like I've said. He needs to improve in both areas....and he will.

[Landlord]

That's not Tommy Armstrong that's obviously a white girl at Starbucks how can I tell from the peace sign and duck face

[The Dude]

That's not Tommy Armstrong that's obviously a white girl at Starbucks how can I tell from the peace sign and duck face

That makes sense. I was wondering why knapplc got the smoochy lips.

[True2tRA]

All I want to see is if Fyfe is the best QB we have, then put him out there. I just want the best players to play, it honestly doesn't piss me off or upset me if Armstrong gets unseated from being the starter.

For the record, I'm in the same boat. I think Tommy is gonna be an incredible QB, but if Fyfe is even better, then he should be starting. Of course, executing in practice and executing in from of 90,000+ fans is two entirely different things, but if he is the better of the two, he deserves his chance. Right now the way it sounds, if Armstrong struggles early it is quite possible Fyfe could get that chance. From what I've heard on the radio anyway.

 

This could all be pointless speculation. My hope right now is that Tommy comes right out of the gate firing on all cylinders.

[knapplc]

Did you take this picture, knapp?

 

I did not. I think I got it from reddit.

 

 

That's not Tommy Armstrong that's obviously a white girl at Starbucks how can I tell from the peace sign and duck face

That makes sense. I was wondering why knapplc got the smoochy lips.

 

 

Wat.

[grandpasknee]

All I want to see is if Fyfe is the best QB we have, then put him out there. I just want the best players to play, it honestly doesn't piss me off or upset me if Armstrong gets unseated from being the starter.

This ^^

 

Could be TA and JS are phenomenal, but who is to say that Fyfe just isn't that 1 in a million that defies all odds and is just a damn star? That wouldn't detract from any of the other QBs at all in my opinion. End of the day, whoever starts, it looks like we've got a heck of a lot better set of options if the starter gets dinged up.

 

And with all this Fyfe talk,can some one remind me? Last year, there was somebody on HB that was all up on Fyfe's jock almost every thread. He was sort of laughed at in a polite "poor little fool" way last year, but man, I'm telling you...I want that guy to pick my stocks. Somebody step up and take credit!