SMH

[Bigred_inSD]

f#*k whether kneeling is right or wrong. I come to Husker board to talk Husker football.

 

And I'm going to be pissed if a 4-0 Husker team lets locker room division (see 4 white players holding the flag) derail what could be our first decent season in a long time. Do what you got to do, but if this has any impact on football I'm going to be pissed.

You must not have read anything about how MRI approached the team about kneeling and white players like Westerkamp making statements.

[zoogs]

If this national conversation creates the kind of discomfort that causes some football teams to be distracted and play less well, ...

 

There are more important things (like this one).

 

I don't think there's necessarily any division here, but it's one to watch, for sure. So far people are just expressing themselves proudly and peacefully and from what we can tell, mutual respect and understanding.

[onlyHskrfaninIL]

 

f#*k whether kneeling is right or wrong. I come to Husker board to talk Husker football.

 

And I'm going to be pissed if a 4-0 Husker team lets locker room division (see 4 white players holding the flag) derail what could be our first decent season in a long time. Do what you got to do, but if this has any impact on football I'm going to be pissed.

You must not have read anything about how MRI approached the team about kneeling and white players like Westerkamp making statements.

It may be a good learning experience. One of the toughest things to learn is that you can disagree on significant issues and still be respecful of each other. I know I struggle with it.

[Landlord]

also pretty telling that all or most of the self-identified veterans in this thread are supportive of the decision, while a bunch of others are offended for them.

[Malth]

When I was growing up I faced racial discrimination on a daily bases. I was attacked verbally and even violently because of the color of my skin. I lived in a very poor part of town and was raised by a single mother. I was ridiculed because I only had one pair of pants and two shirts to wear to school. My sister and I basically raised ourselves because my un-educated mother could not find a good job. She had to take the worst sh!t work she could find just to make ends meet. Gang violence was an occurrence that I saw (and tried to avoid) on a regular basis. There were shootings, stabbings and beatings that took place right in the street just feet from my shabby little run-down apartment. Nobody in my immediate family had ever graduated college so our family ethos was not one of placing importance on education. As such, I didn't do well in high school. While in school, because of my beliefs and outspokeness on social issues, I was often ridiculed not only by fellow students, but by my teachers as well. You see, I went to a high school where the teachers were not like me. In my neighborhood I was regularly pulled over by the police, told to sit on the curb (sometimes handcuffed) and watched by one officer while another basically tore apart the car I was driving. Before I could drive, I was often stopped on the street while walking along minding my own business and called over to a passing police car. The officers would exit and tell me to assume the position with my hands on the hood of the car, feet spread, while they searched me for weapons and contraband. There were no programs for youth in my neighborhood, particularly any specifically designed to help a kid like me who was a racial minority in that neighborhood and therefore didn't really fit in with the goals of those programs that did exist. When I got out of high school, there were no scholarships available. You see, I had to go and hustle and get work to help support my then aging mother, so my job disqualified me for financial needs based scholarships or aid, and there were no scholarships available for people of my race. I know very well what it's like to grow up without privilege. I have lost a job and not gotten others (and not gotten a promotion) because of the color of my skin, and it's very frustrating. However, I have become relatively successful and I owe it all to the opportunities that this country has provided for me.

 

As others have said, this place is not perfect, I know this better than most people, but it's still the greatest country on earth. I am absolutely in favor of the rights of college students to peacefully protest. However, I don't think they should be disrespectful. I believe that kneeling during the national anthem is a way to purposely show disrespect in order to get a rise out of people. That accomplishes very little and is in reality more divisive at a time when we should be looking for ways to bring people together and make our great nation even greater. If a player has a philosophical or religious reason not to stand before the flag, I'm okay with that. However, I think teams should start to make accommodations for those players so that their opposition doesn't fly in the face of people who are not attempting to do them any harm; but are simply trying to show their love of this great country. I would have no problem with allowing players who just can't stand for the anthem to wait in the locker room until the anthem was over. That way they wouldn't be going against their consciences and at the same time wouldn't be offending others. Of course they wouldn't get the opportunity to be provocative, but perhaps during the national anthem isn't the best time to be provocative.

 

I have a hard time figuring out what to make of your post. The first half is much needed insight and perspective. The second half seems out of touch and tone deaf.

 

Here's the thing: Practically all forms of protest are "divisive" and/or "disrespectful". I keep hearing that all these things are divisive and we should be doing things to bring people together... OK well I'm all ears. This sh#t has been going on for a verrrry long time, and not being provocative doesn't really seem to accomplish anything.

 

The fact that there are people who get more outraged at someone kneeling during the national anthem then they do when people are needlessly killed is pretty f'ing sad. (Not saying this applies to you, just in general)

[Jim Hammer]

 

 

 

 

You are right Elf. As for the example of a flag touching the ground during a parchute landing, I don't think the individual landing the parachute had the intent to make a political statement in doing so. Apples to oranges comparisons going on in here.

It doesn't matter if the parachutist is making a political statement, he is disrespecting the flag through his careless actions and should be fired.

 

 

Nobody is saying that players do not have a right to protest...that is definitely their right, but the vast majority who oppose their actions have the right to come down on them hard, and often.

So if I oppose those who oppose their actions, I also have the right to come down on them hard. People who say they should lose their scholarships are far worse than those exercising the rights represented by that flag. Because you don't agree with their cause, you don't have the right to tell them how to act.

 

 

I've had several military personnel I know who are really upset about what is going on, and some have just stopped watching sports all together.

 

Players have beaten their wives, raped women, and committed murder, and this causes them to quit watching sports? Someone's priorities are seriously out of whack.

 

 

Point 1-Apples to oranges, but you apparently can't see the difference between intent.

 

Point 2-Wrong...just as I agree they have the "right" to express their opinions, others have the right to condemn them. MLB just suspended a player for the rest of the season for speaking his mind, and I don't agree with what he said at all, but is that ok for the league to punish him for expressing his views?

 

Point 3-I pointed this out in another thread. Instances like players doing drugs or beating their wives should not be tolerated at all. With that said, when a player is hooked on drugs, he's punishing himself, or in the case of attacking a female, he's doing harm to another human being. None of this should be tolerated. Disrespecting the flag is an assault on the millions of Americans who have bravely fought for this country, some of which wish they still had their legs/knees so they could kneel.

 

This whole BLM movement is minimizing the real harm in the black community. More black men die at the hands of other black men than from police officers. Blacks are more likely to live in poverty than any other race. And Black lives have gotten worse under the first black President, so why not protest him. The President's home town is a complete mess with the murder rate breaking records, and he has not made any attempt to visit those neighborhoods and try to make a difference. Now that is worth protesting.

 

1. You are the one determining intent. Did the players come out and say they are disrespecting this country? I look at it like they are protesting unfair treatment of minorities in this country. The America you and I experience is much different than the one they grew up in. Before you condemn their actions, try to understand their motivations.

 

2. Your reading comprehension is terrible. I agree with your right to condemn their actions. I have the right to condemn yours.

 

If MLB wants to fine or suspend a player for what they deem as hate speech, they have the right to as it harms the league. Coach Riley, administration, the NFL and many others have said what the players do is within their rights and some even support it. And millions may look on it as disrespectful, millions also look at it as an exercise of their constitutional rights. You are trying to suppress those rights.

 

3. Reading comprehension again. Why is it that all those other deplorable acts that shouldn't be tolerated aren't making people turn off football, but a peaceful protest crosses the line? Many veterans (myself included) support the players. The protest is meant to bring attention to their cause and it's done that. Most of the people ignoring them hide behind the "disrespecting the flag and veteran" angle do so to deflect from the issue.

 

I'm not going to dignify the rest with a response. You can either educate yourself to the issues or keep spouting right-wing racist rhetoric.

 

Edit: I mistakenly posted that hate speech is not protected by the first amendment. It is. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/07/no-theres-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/?utm_term=.b9b30e5dd07b

[knapplc]

You can either educate yourself to the issues or keep spouting right-wing racist rhetoric.

Jim Hammer, meet bnilhome. This is not new.

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are right Elf. As for the example of a flag touching the ground during a parchute landing, I don't think the individual landing the parachute had the intent to make a political statement in doing so. Apples to oranges comparisons going on in here.

It doesn't matter if the parachutist is making a political statement, he is disrespecting the flag through his careless actions and should be fired.

 

Nobody is saying that players do not have a right to protest...that is definitely their right, but the vast majority who oppose their actions have the right to come down on them hard, and often.

So if I oppose those who oppose their actions, I also have the right to come down on them hard. People who say they should lose their scholarships are far worse than those exercising the rights represented by that flag. Because you don't agree with their cause, you don't have the right to tell them how to act.

 

I've had several military personnel I know who are really upset about what is going on, and some have just stopped watching sports all together.

 

Players have beaten their wives, raped women, and committed murder, and this causes them to quit watching sports? Someone's priorities are seriously out of whack.

Point 1-Apples to oranges, but you apparently can't see the difference between intent.

 

Point 2-Wrong...just as I agree they have the "right" to express their opinions, others have the right to condemn them. MLB just suspended a player for the rest of the season for speaking his mind, and I don't agree with what he said at all, but is that ok for the league to punish him for expressing his views?

 

Point 3-I pointed this out in another thread. Instances like players doing drugs or beating their wives should not be tolerated at all. With that said, when a player is hooked on drugs, he's punishing himself, or in the case of attacking a female, he's doing harm to another human being. None of this should be tolerated. Disrespecting the flag is an assault on the millions of Americans who have bravely fought for this country, some of which wish they still had their legs/knees so they could kneel.

 

This whole BLM movement is minimizing the real harm in the black community. More black men die at the hands of other black men than from police officers. Blacks are more likely to live in poverty than any other race. And Black lives have gotten worse under the first black President, so why not protest him. The President's home town is a complete mess with the murder rate breaking records, and he has not made any attempt to visit those neighborhoods and try to make a difference. Now that is worth protesting.

1. You are the one determining intent. Did the players come out and say they are disrespecting this country? I look at it like they are protesting unfair treatment of minorities in this country. The America you and I experience is much different than the one they grew up in. Before you condemn their actions, try to understand their motivations.

 

2. Your reading comprehension is terrible. I agree with your right to condemn their actions. I have the right to condemn yours.

 

If MLB wants to fine or suspend a player for what they deem as hate speech, they have the right to as it harms the league. Coach Riley, administration, the NFL and many others have said what the players do is within their rights and some even support it. And millions may look on it as disrespectful, millions also look at it as an exercise of their constitutional rights. You are trying to suppress those rights.

 

3. Reading comprehension again. Why is it that all those other deplorable acts that shouldn't be tolerated aren't making people turn off football, but a peaceful protest crosses the line? Many veterans (myself included) support the players. The protest is meant to bring attention to their cause and it's done that. Most of the people ignoring them hide behind the "disrespecting the flag and veteran" angle do so to deflect from the issue.

 

I'm not going to dignify the rest with a response. You can either educate yourself to the issues or keep spouting right-wing racist rhetoric.

 

Edit: I mistakenly posted that hate speech is not protected by the first amendment. It is. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/07/no-theres-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/?utm_term=.b9b30e5dd07b

Lol to your post and bashing right wing rhetoric while posting a story from one of the most left leaning outfits. In fact 61% disagree with CK and kneeling during the anthem, so unless you feel the right wing makes up 61 percent of the country, your logic is flawed.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN11K2ID

[Red Five]

[Jim Hammer]

 

Lol to your post and bashing right wing rhetoric while posting a story from one of the most left leaning outfits. In fact 61% disagree with CK and kneeling during the anthem, so unless you feel the right wing makes up 61 percent of the country, your logic is flawed.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN11K2ID

 

 

You don't even know what the story was about. It actually supports those who practice hate speech. I was admitting I made a mistake.

 

And by loling my post, I assume that means you have no intelligent rebuttal,.

[knapplc]

Reading comprehension...

 

Even so, 64 percent of respondents said they felt the quarterback had the right to protest under the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of speech.

 

And 46 percent said he should not be penalized by the NFL, which so far has said that there is no specific rule that requires players to stand during the anthem. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has said he supports players' right to protest.

Also, and more to the point of the protests/protesters:

 

While some 70 percent of respondents who identified as white said they disagreed with Kaepernick, that number dropped to 40 percent of respondents who identified as a racial minority.

So White America thinks these protests are wrong-minded by a 60/40 margin.

 

But the people who are actually living the problem these guys are protesting say they have a valid point, 60/40.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the problem isn't the protesters, but the people who haven't walked in their shoes.

[HuskerNation1]

Reading comprehension...

 

 

Even so, 64 percent of respondents said they felt the quarterback had the right to protest under the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of speech.

 

And 46 percent said he should not be penalized by the NFL, which so far has said that there is no specific rule that requires players to stand during the anthem. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has said he supports players' right to protest.

Also, and more to the point of the protests/protesters:

 

While some 70 percent of respondents who identified as white said they disagreed with Kaepernick, that number dropped to 40 percent of respondents who identified as a racial minority.

So White America thinks these protests are wrong-minded by a 60/40 margin.

 

But the people who are actually living the problem these guys are protesting say they have a valid point, 60/40.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the problem isn't the protesters, but the people who haven't walked in their shoes.

You are once again bringing up irrelevant points. Nobody is saying that CK does not have a right to protest, a majority simply believe protesting the national anthem is disrespectful, period. Supporting law enforcement is not a black vs white issue. When 99% of cops are doing good for our society and risking their lives everyday to protect our communities, its not going to garner much sympathy from most Americans by taking a knee at the national anthem.

[Atbone95]

I think this (discussing the moral relativity of the actions and the BLM movement) would be a good debate for the Politics/Religion forum. As for posts discussing the relevance and potential effect a divisive locker room could have on our 4-0 team, that could probably stay here.

[zoogs]

I think it's OK here -- it's become a Husker football topic because three Husker players kneeled for the anthem last night. Keep each thread on topic, of course, but they've brought this discussion into the Husker football sphere.

 

There's plenty of other general politics stuff for the P&R forum. Let's try to not veer too far in that category (bnilhome )

[Guy Chamberlin]

Just keep in mind that the rhetoric used to discredit black protestors today is almost identical to the rhetoric white people leveled against the civil rights movement 50 years ago: the negroes have brought this upon themselves. They need to be patient, show more respect, don't talk back to police, etc.

 

History didn't look kindly at the first round of soft core racism. It's not going to be any prettier this time.

 

And laying the new racial divide at Obama's feet? Oh Bnilhome, you are the cherry on a sh#t sundae.