Jump to content
NM11046

DOJ Initial Russia Hearings

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, schriznoeder said:

But I thought the Steele Dossier was just a heap of untrue garbage? 

 

 

 

It's like amateur hour! I guess he'd never heard of a burner phone/sim card.. 

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ZRod said:

 

It's like amateur hour! I guess he'd never heard of a burner phone/sim card.. 

 

I know, right? It's kind of comical how bad they are at being criminals. 

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really starting to think Mr. "Promises made, promises kept" is framing things that way because he knows ignoring the elephant in the room is his only play. 

 

 

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We may have just had another puzzle piece fall into place thanks to Manafort's incompetent lawyers. 

 

This seems an awful lot like collusion to me. "it is not surprising at all that [he] was unable to remember specific details prior to having his recollection refreshed" is one hell of an excuse for allegedly lying to the federal government.

 

 

 

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It should be noted that this is campaign internal polling, which is detailed... not Rasmussen polls or something where its just a favorable number.  This, combined with the DNC breach, probably gave the Russians plenty of detailed info on Americans to target in their propaganda campaign. 

 

Also this absolutely "IS COLLUSION" and handing an adversary information on American citizens to target them in propaganda ops.  Way to go GOP.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

*little snippet*

 

Lots of quotes in this story, none of which seem particularly good for Trump.

 

 

 

 

I don't like reading stuff like this.

 

f37f0b0973724f400186fc430c8ad48e.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, methodical said:

It should be noted that this is campaign internal polling, which is detailed... not Rasmussen polls or something where its just a favorable number.  This, combined with the DNC breach, probably gave the Russians plenty of detailed info on Americans to target in their propaganda campaign. 

 

Also this absolutely "IS COLLUSION" and handing an adversary information on American citizens to target them in propaganda ops.  Way to go GOP.

But there's no proof of conspiracy! :movegoalpost:

  • Plus1 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And don't let anyone dismiss "polling data" as something rudimentary. This wouldn't just be simple TRUMP v. CLINTON percentages. It would include internal polling on divisive issues like African-Americans/BLM and NFL anthem-kneeling (which we know Russia did target with their election interference campaign). 

 

EDIT: Additionally:

 

16 hours ago, methodical said:

It should be noted that this is campaign internal polling, which is detailed... not Rasmussen polls or something where its just a favorable number.  This, combined with the DNC breach, probably gave the Russians plenty of detailed info on Americans to target in their propaganda campaign. 

 

Also this absolutely "IS COLLUSION" and handing an adversary information on American citizens to target them in propaganda ops.  Way to go GOP.

 

Just saw this, spot on. +1

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting and hopeful

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6574343/Attorney-General-pick-Barr-expresses-confidence-Mueller.html

Attorney General hopeful Bill Barr WON'T fire Mueller and doesn't think he's on a 'witch hunt' says Lindsey Graham as he reveals they've been 'best friends' for 20 years and their wives share a Bible study and Mueller attended his daughters' weddings

  • Trump nominated Bill Barr, who was attorney general under President George H.W. Bush, to take the job again after firing Jeff Sessions
  • Barr has a confirmation hearing coming up next week and made the rounds to sit with key Republican senators on Wednesday
  • Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key Trump confidant, told reporters Barr has no plan to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller and doesn't think he's running a 'witch hunt' 
  • Barr and Mueller are 'best friends,' he said, noting that the two men have known each other for 20 years 
  • Their wives attend the same Bible study together, and Mueller has attended the weddings of two of Barr's daughters 

 

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jr going to testify...so donnie hires 17 more lawyers.   rick....what can you tell us about these guys?

 

 

  • Plus1 1
  • Haha 2
  • Eyeroll 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TGHusker said:

This is interesting and hopeful

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6574343/Attorney-General-pick-Barr-expresses-confidence-Mueller.html

Attorney General hopeful Bill Barr WON'T fire Mueller and doesn't think he's on a 'witch hunt' says Lindsey Graham as he reveals they've been 'best friends' for 20 years and their wives share a Bible study and Mueller attended his daughters' weddings

  • Trump nominated Bill Barr, who was attorney general under President George H.W. Bush, to take the job again after firing Jeff Sessions
  • Barr has a confirmation hearing coming up next week and made the rounds to sit with key Republican senators on Wednesday
  • Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key Trump confidant, told reporters Barr has no plan to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller and doesn't think he's running a 'witch hunt' 
  • Barr and Mueller are 'best friends,' he said, noting that the two men have known each other for 20 years 
  • Their wives attend the same Bible study together, and Mueller has attended the weddings of two of Barr's daughters 

 

Why the hell did trump nominate this guy? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LumberJackSker said:

Why the hell did trump nominate this guy? 

 

 

Barr has been critical of Mueller's investigation, and I don't believe a thing Graham says anymore.

  • Plus1 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I’m looking forward to this. 

 

 

Should be fun. I'm a bit afraid at this point though that no matter what is discovered, the Trump base is entrenched and will catagorize any negative Trump news as fake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

 

 

 

 

I always assumed that the FBI was lying to Trump when they told him they weren't investigating them, because I thought they had to be investigating him, and it's probably perfectly legal for the FBI to lie to someone they're investigating.

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

I always assumed that the FBI was lying to Trump when they told him they weren't investigating them, because I thought they had to be investigating him, and it's probably perfectly legal for the FBI to lie to someone they're investigating.


This thread points out that there were two separate investigations at that point: the investigation into Russian interference in our election and the counterintelligence investigation into whether Trumps as wittingly or unwittingly working to advance Russian interests.

 

Comes could've in good conscience told Trump he wasn't a subject of the former while they were actively monitoring him as the central subject of the latter. He wouldn't be lying.

 

(No idea the qualifications or identity of this person, but it's a compelling thread and looks really bad for Trump, IMO)

 

 

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

This thread points out that there were two separate investigations at that point: the investigation into Russian interference in our election and the counterintelligence investigation into whether Trumps as wittingly or unwittingly working to advance Russian interests.

 

 

I know... I always assumed there were. I thought maybe they didn't find anything on the latter, but maybe they have.

 

The tweet was a good read, but if the GOP leaders are implicated, they're not going to go down without a fight and might protect Trump regardless. I think we might still have to vote him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I know... I always assumed there were. I thought maybe they didn't find anything on the latter, but maybe they have.

  

The tweet was a good read, but if the GOP leaders are implicated, they're not going to go down without a fight and might protect Trump regardless. I think we might still have to vote him out.

 

My read on the NYT article is that the counterintel investigation is ongoing since it was handed off to Mueller from the FBI.

 

I had a bit of a worrisome thought this morning. What if a third party candidate like Bloomberg does well enough in 2020 that no one gets to 270? In that situation the House would decide the next president BUT... each state's delegation gets one vote. Although the Dems controls the House, enough of their reps come from deeply blue states like CA and NY that they don't have majority representation in enough states to get to 26 votes in the House.

 

Imagine a scenario where Trump loses the popular vote (and potentially doesn't have the most EVs) but a minority of House Republicans re-elect him because they have more majorities in rural/red states. Very federalist and very dark scenario that would continue to leave 60+% of the country up a creek.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This guy is a straight up puppet. What innocent person acts this way?

 

 

Quote

President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

 

Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

 

The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.


As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference.

...

Trump allies said the president thinks the presence of subordinates impairs his ability to establish a rapport with Putin, and that his desire for secrecy may also be driven by embarrassing leaks that occurred early in his presidency.
...

The meeting in Hamburg happened several months after The Washington Post and other news organizations revealed details about what Trump had told senior Russian officials during a meeting with Russian officials in the Oval Office. Trump disclosed classified information about a terror plot, called former FBI director James B. Comey a “nut job,” and said that firing Comey had removed “great pressure” on his relationship with Russia.

 

The White House launched internal leak hunts after that and other episodes, and sharply curtailed the distribution within the National Security Council of memos on the president’s interactions with foreign leaders.

 

I honestly don't understand how Trump supporters can defend this. Knowing what we know, how can you possibly be OK with him meeting several times privately with the man who oversaw the assault on our democracy, and subsequently suppressing any and all details about what was said? You'd have to be a willfully ignorant rube.

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said:

I honestly don't understand how Trump supporters can defend this. Knowing what we know, how can you possibly be OK with him meeting several times privately with the man who oversaw the assault on our democracy, and subsequently suppressing any and all details about what was said? You'd have to be a willfully ignorant rube.

Trump is their guy, leader of their team, and acknowledging Russia's actions would cast doubt on the legitimacy of the election. I wouldn't even call it willful ignorance. They've got their news sources that they like, and said sources will never touch this in a truly critical light. Anyone else reporting or commenting on the treason at hand is a left wing nutjob to them, because that's how their media and elected officials have painted things for such a long time.

  • Plus1 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

My read on the NYT article is that the counterintel investigation is ongoing since it was handed off to Mueller from the FBI.

 

I had a bit of a worrisome thought this morning. What if a third party candidate like Bloomberg does well enough in 2020 that no one gets to 270? In that situation the House would decide the next president BUT... each state's delegation gets one vote. Although the Dems controls the House, enough of their reps come from deeply blue states like CA and NY that they don't have majority representation in enough states to get to 26 votes in the House.

 

Imagine a scenario where Trump loses the popular vote (and potentially doesn't have the most EVs) but a minority of House Republicans re-elect him because they have more majorities in rural/red states. Very federalist and very dark scenario that would continue to leave 60+% of the country up a creek.

 

I've had similar thoughts. Luckily, the likelihood of that scenario happening is slim to quite slim, so I try not to go there. But based on how volatile and unpredictable everything has become, we can't rule it out completely. 

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A well put-together timeline of events from July, 2017.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the text of this rather long twitter thread:

 

THREAD: Has anyone noticed the very disturbing overlap between Trump’s insistence on preventing his own staff from learning about discussions with Putin at the Hamburg G20 meeting in July 2017 and how he handled initial revelations about the infamous Trump Tower meeting? 1/
Consider the following timeline: on July 7–8, 2017,Trump attends the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany the site of his first face to face encounter with Putin. 2/ Dw3-Z0OW0AAKzhd.jpg
On the morning of July 7, 2017, the New York Times informs the White House--for the first time--that it has learned about the Trump Tower meeting between Don Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer with Russian government connections, Natalya Veselnitskaya. 3/ Dw3-zqlXgAEAXUO.jpg
The New York Times asks the White House to comment. 4/
On the afternoon of July 7, 2017, Trump and Putin, accompanied only by Rex Tillerson, Sergei Lavrov and their interpreters, meet for 2 and 1/2 hours. 5/ Dw3_IEoX0AAQ9AF.jpg
Later that evening on July 7, 2017, during the formal G20 summit dinner, Trump seeks out Putin for another conversation. Putin’s interpreter is the only other participant. 7/ Dw3_77aW0AA55Dr.jpg
As Bremmer points out, Trump oddly doesn’t even inform his own staff afterwards that he’s had this second conversation with Putin. 9/ Dw4BGpiWoAAGpgI.jpg
Don Jr.’s statement to @nytimes emphasizes: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” at the meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya 11/ Dw4CPuXXcAAG6kI.jpg
On July 11, 2017 the same @nytimes team breaks the story that Don Jr was told in advance that Veselnitskaya intended to provide dirt on the Hillary Clinton campaign at the behest of the Russian government. Don Jr. replies: "I love it." 13/
In the same interview, Trump also floats the idea that there was nothing inappropriate about his senior-most campaign officials meeting with foreign emissaries who wanted to help his campaign. “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” 15/ Dw4ETVdXgAAV79W.jpg
All of this begs the question: What did Trump and Putin actually discuss at that impromptu one-on-one dinner meeting at the Hamburg G20 on July 7, 2017? 16/
Moreover, why did they huddle together by themselves within hours of the White House learning that the at-that-point-still-secret Trump Tower meeting between Trump, Jr. and the Russians was about to become public? 17/
Put another way, shortly after the New York Times reached out to the White House to ask about a secret meeting with the Russians, Trump himself sought a secret meeting with the Russians. 18/
h/t Former federal prosecutor who helped compile this timeline and series of as-yet unanswered questions END
  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Mueller reveals this can of worms, it is going to shock the nation. One more day of this is one more day of endangering our country.  If it is found that GOP leaders were also aware of this, then I hope there is a big house cleaning.    McConnell and House GOP leaders have protected Trump at the expense of the country.   I hope the Dems can bring about some transparency without overplaying their hand by which it empowers Trump supporters and gets Trump reelected.

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the articles that have been coming out the last 72 hours, and Bernstein's interview yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller drops the bomb before the end of the month or early February.

 

I'm also extremely nervous for this country's reaction. If the report is as bad as we all believe it is, initial reaction will be a great schism within this nation much to Russia's delight. After that I can see things going any number of ways.

  • The Right is appalled by the over reach of Justice Dept and pushes through laws that declaw them and intelligence community. Ultimately hurting this country's ability to conduct counter surveillance and investigate a ethical issues - less likely with the recent shift in Congress.
  • The Left over reacts. With some support from the Reublicans in the Senate they pass constitional legislation that upsets the balance of the 3 branches and strips the president of many powers - Further disfunction ensues in Washington.
  • The do nothing option: Trump is impeached but the Senate ultimately fails to oust him from office and everyone washes their hands of the issue because he's got an R by his name - SSDD
  • Trump is impeached and resigns with Pence pardoning him and his family. The majority of America is pissed!
  • Impeached, convicted, and found guilty of treason. - not happening unless this really is reality TV.
  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, ZRod said:

With the articles that have been coming out the last 72 hours, and Bernstein's interview yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller drops the bomb before the end of the month or early February.

 

I'm also extremely nervous for this country's reaction. If the report is as bad as we all believe it is, initial reaction will be a great schism within this nation much to Russia's delight. After that I can see things going any number of ways.

  • The Right is appalled by the over reach of Justice Dept and pushes through laws that declaw them and intelligence community. Ultimately hurting this country's ability to conduct counter surveillance and investigate a ethical issues - less likely with the recent shift in Congress.
  • The Left over reacts. With some support from the Reublicans in the Senate they pass constitional legislation that upsets the balance of the 3 branches and strips the president of many powers - Further disfunction ensues in Washington.
  • The do nothing option: Trump is impeached but the Senate ultimately fails to oust him from office and everyone washes their hands of the issue because he's got an R by his name - SSDD
  • Trump is impeached and resigns with Pence pardoning him and his family. The majority of America is pissed!
  • Impeached, convicted, and found guilty of treason. - not happening unless this really is reality TV.

 

Most likely scenario with the Trump base still proclaiming it was a total which hunt and think he's the greatest President ever to live.

 

If he releases his findings and they are very convincing, it would make the Cohen testimony on national TV Feb 7th, even more riveting.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, ZRod said:

With the articles that have been coming out the last 72 hours, and Bernstein's interview yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller drops the bomb before the end of the month or early February.

 

I'm also extremely nervous for this country's reaction. If the report is as bad as we all believe it is, initial reaction will be a great schism within this nation much to Russia's delight. After that I can see things going any number of ways.

  • The Right is appalled by the over reach of Justice Dept and pushes through laws that declaw them and intelligence community. Ultimately hurting this country's ability to conduct counter surveillance and investigate a ethical issues - less likely with the recent shift in Congress.
  • The Left over reacts. With some support from the Reublicans in the Senate they pass constitional legislation that upsets the balance of the 3 branches and strips the president of many powers - Further disfunction ensues in Washington.
  • The do nothing option: Trump is impeached but the Senate ultimately fails to oust him from office and everyone washes their hands of the issue because he's got an R by his name - SSDD
  • Trump is impeached and resigns with Pence pardoning him and his family. The majority of America is pissed!
  • Impeached, convicted, and found guilty of treason. - not happening unless this really is reality TV.

I will be disheartened as an American citizen if anything short of your final bullet happens. Its what needs to happen if what we are hearing is true. I don't give a flying flip about red or blue right now, Russia is a bipartisan enemy to our way of life. We need to come together on this and make sure we are clear this will not be accepted as a standard in our country. 

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ZRod said:

With the articles that have been coming out the last 72 hours, and Bernstein's interview yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller drops the bomb before the end of the month or early February.

 

I'm also extremely nervous for this country's reaction. If the report is as bad as we all believe it is, initial reaction will be a great schism within this nation much to Russia's delight. After that I can see things going any number of ways.

  • The Right is appalled by the over reach of Justice Dept and pushes through laws that declaw them and intelligence community. Ultimately hurting this country's ability to conduct counter surveillance and investigate a ethical issues - less likely with the recent shift in Congress.
  • The Left over reacts. With some support from the Reublicans in the Senate they pass constitional legislation that upsets the balance of the 3 branches and strips the president of many powers - Further disfunction ensues in Washington.
  • The do nothing option: Trump is impeached but the Senate ultimately fails to oust him from office and everyone washes their hands of the issue because he's got an R by his name - SSDD
  • Trump is impeached and resigns with Pence pardoning him and his family. The majority of America is pissed!
  • Impeached, convicted, and found guilty of treason. - not happening unless this really is reality TV.

 

Someone had corrected me before that Trump can't be found guilty of Treason based on the semantics of the legal definition. Collusion is the best we can get...

 

...but yeah, even if the evidence is there, is well documented and put together as such, you're going to have certain intellectually-challenged people that are going to ignore the facts because they treat their politics like their favorite sports teams. For these people, it doesn't matter what they do or what the long-term ramifications are--just so long as they have a 'R' by their name.

 

That's what I worry about, because that sort of willful ignorance and lack of regard for what is just and right is what ultimately brings about violent conflict. 

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Most likely scenario with the Trump base still proclaiming it was a total which hunt and think he's the greatest President ever to live.

 

If he releases his findings and they are very convincing, it would make the Cohen testimony on national TV Feb 7th, even more riveting.  

 

 

I think the Senate and House already have enough power. They just aren’t using it. E.g. They have the power to open the government any time they want regardless of what Trump wants. 

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I think the Senate and House already have enough power. They just aren’t using it. E.g. They have the power to open the government any time they want regardless of what Trump wants. 

Not sure what this has to do with my post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Not sure what this has to do with my post.

 

 

Nothing. I was reading @ZRod‘s   post and didn’t realize it was quoted by you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I think the Senate and House already have enough power. They just aren’t using it. E.g. They have the power to open the government any time they want regardless of what Trump wants. 

 

House? Yes?

 

Senate? No, McConnell is gonna turtle his ignorant, piece of excrement self into oblivion before he allows a vote on a bill to supersede Trump's authority. 

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, VectorVictor said:

 

House? Yes?

 

Senate? No, McConnell is gonna turtle his ignorant, piece of excrement self into oblivion before he allows a vote on a bill to supersede Trump's authority. 

 

 

The senators can go against him and unblock votes if they want, according to what I just googled. They’re just too chicken.

 

I don’t know who is worse, Trump or McConnell. 

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McConnell is tied up with Russian money too. He is Trump aka Putins lap dog at this point. 3.5 million of Russian oligarch money can do funny things to a person, not that McConnell had an extraordinary character to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nebfanatic said:

McConnell is tied up with Russian money too. He is Trump aka Putins lap dog at this point. 3.5 million of Russian oligarch money can do funny things to a person, not that McConnell had an extraordinary character to begin with.

What's the source on this claim?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, VectorVictor said:

 

Someone had corrected me before that Trump can't be found guilty of Treason based on the semantics of the legal definition. Collusion is the best we can get...

 

...but yeah, even if the evidence is there, is well documented and put together as such, you're going to have certain intellectually-challenged people that are going to ignore the facts because they treat their politics like their favorite sports teams. For these people, it doesn't matter what they do or what the long-term ramifications are--just so long as they have a 'R' by their name.

 

That's what I worry about, because that sort of willful ignorance and lack of regard for what is just and right is what ultimately brings about violent conflict. 

I think he could easily be found guilty of treason if his people give him up. If Russia was working to undermine the US and Trump aided them in some form then that is, by the constitional definition, treason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×