Trump Impeachment # 2

[Archy1221]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

the entire Republican party and the 74 million people who live in an alternate universe who is at fault.

Blaming 74 million people for action of roughly 500-1000.  Good luck with that argument.  

[TGHusker]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

Ok let’s play the game all the way through.  Does Jan 6th happen if the people in DC protest “peacefully and patriotically” like Trump said in his speech?  g

You all are fixed on a non-existent “crime” of incitement.   It’s why you all are so upset Trump was not convicted.  Your side should have focused on the Presidential inaction after the riot started.  

Bold red: that was a CMA statement by Trump - mentioned maybe one time vs the many times he said to fight like hell, etc.

 

Bold Green:  Yes - I agree, this points out his failure to uphold the oath he took - however, it is also a logical conclusion to his previous actions of incitement. 

[Redux]

7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you. As mentioned, I think the Democrats probably screwed up both impeachments. 

 

You could always cast reasonable doubt about whether Donald Trump intended for his followers to violently attack the Capitol building (though he clearly loved the gesture). But it's unquestionable that Trump refused to accept the results of a well-validated democratic election and used a variety of highly unethical means to undermine America's faith in its institutions order to remain in power as an unelected dictator. The latter is all you need to impeach the President, and I'd say it comes closer to treason than anything a U.S. President has done in our once proud history. 

 

But Nancy tearing up a speech? That's barely a ripple in the Trump cosmos. 

 

Oh I doubt he hated the gesture, but he verifiably did not make the request for it.  He just didn't, anyone saying it's undeniable that he made this statement is ignoring words and assuming intentions.  Assuming intentions is not evidence nor should it be.

 

I'm not looking forward to the turnabout is fair play Republicans response.

[Enhance]

25 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Ok let’s play the game all the way through.  Does Jan 6th happen if the people in DC protest “peacefully and patriotically” like Trump said in his speech?  
 

You all are fixed on a non-existent “crime” of incitement.   It’s why you all are so upset Trump was not convicted.  Your side should have focused on the Presidential inaction after the riot started.  

My post related to the totality of his behavior which unequivocally supports the opinion that he played a massive and single biggest role in what ultimately happened Jan. 6th. Agree/disagree with the bolded?

[knapplc]

 

[Redux]

17 minutes ago, Enhance said:

My post related to the totality of his behavior which unequivocally supports the opinion that he played a massive and single biggest role in what ultimately happened Jan. 6th. Agree/disagree with the bolded?

 

Saying yes isn't enough to convict him IMO.  He's the former president, he has a massive constituency and among that are radicals (Undoubtedly the largest amount of radicals of any former president I would think).  They wouldn't have rioted had he not lost or not ever been president.  That alone is not enough to convict him.  His presidency and his loss inspired the radicals to take matters into their own hands.  His words did not make the request.  Punish the radicals, investigate the entire matter, Trump is out of the WH.

[ZRod]

3 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Oh I doubt he hated the gesture, but he verifiably did not make the request for it.  He just didn't, anyone saying it's undeniable that he made this statement is ignoring words and assuming intentions.  Assuming intentions is not evidence nor should it be.

 

I'm not looking forward to the turnabout is fair play Republicans response.

Actually establishing intention is a pretty big part of a real criminal trial. And even impeachment. See 19:30 of this video on Trump's first impeachment. 

 

 

[Archy1221]

36 minutes ago, Enhance said:

My post related to the totality of his behavior which unequivocally supports the opinion that he played a massive and single biggest role in what ultimately happened Jan. 6th. Agree/disagree with the bolded?

If you are trying to tell me that those protestors turned rioters listed to Trump say “come rally and protest on Jan6th” because they listen to everything he says, then decided to not listen to Trump say “peaceful and patriotically” ON January 6th I got nothing for you.  
 

Ya’ll are focused on the wrong thing.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

46 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Oh I doubt he hated the gesture, but he verifiably did not make the request for it.  He just didn't, anyone saying it's undeniable that he made this statement is ignoring words and assuming intentions.  Assuming intentions is not evidence nor should it be.

 

I'm not looking forward to the turnabout is fair play Republicans response.

 

If you lead a horse to water, the horse has the choice to drink or not drink.

 

But the fact remains that you led him to the water. And thirsty horses like to drink. 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

If you are trying to tell me that those protestors turned rioters listed to Trump say “come rally and protest on Jan6th” because they listen to everything he says, then decided to not listen to Trump say “peaceful and patriotically” ON January 6th I got nothing for you.  
 

Ya’ll are focused on the wrong thing.  

 

If you're pretending that trump ONLY said to protest "peacefully and patriotically" ON January 6th, you're lying to yourself or you're lying to us. 

[Ulty]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

If you are trying to tell me that those protestors turned rioters listed to Trump say “come rally and protest on Jan6th” because they listen to everything he says, then decided to not listen to Trump say “peaceful and patriotically” ON January 6th I got nothing for you.  

Half-heartedly asking the toothpaste to get back in the tube does not mean that you are not responsible for squeezing it out.

[Guy Chamberlin]

55 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Blaming 74 million people for action of roughly 500-1000.  Good luck with that argument.  

 

Apparently 67% of Republicans believe Donald Trump should not have conceded the Presidency, based on utterly baseless lies told repeatedly by Donald Trump.

 

Let's not undercount the number of people who either can't discern reality or have no problem moving America towards dictatorship. 

 

Archy: do you believe the 2020 election was a landslide victory for Donald Trump, but it was unfairly stolen from him? 

[Redux]

15 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

If you lead a horse to water, the horse has the choice to drink or not drink.

 

But the fact remains that you led him to the water. And thirsty horses like to drink. 

 

Sure, but being able to decide guilt based off assumed intent sets a dangerous precedent.  I don't think convicting citizen Trump over this is worth opening that can of worms.

[Guy Chamberlin]

9 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Sure, but being able to decide guilt based off assumed intent sets a dangerous precedent.  I don't think convicting citizen Trump over this is worth opening that can of worms.

 

Well the can of worms is whether we can ever trust our election system again, or if it can be strong-armed into undermining the will of the American people. 

 

So there's that. 

[Redux]

14 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well the can of worms is whether we can ever trust our election system again, or if it can be strong-armed into undermining the will of the American people. 

 

So there's that. 

 

The American people should see through the facade and not pin their ideals and loyalties to suits who don't care about them.