Triaging the QB room

[Enhance]

16 minutes ago, MyBloodIsRed16 said:

the same thing happened with T. Mart, A. Mart and to a lesser extent T. Armstrong.  The coaches talk about protecting themselves meaning sliding or running out of bounds but they all became timid runners and started to slow down right before contact.  I don't think that is protecting yourself.  I'm not saying you have to try to run everyone over but you gotta be going full go.   

100% agree. 

I remember watching TMart do that and it would just drive me up a wall, because he'd look like a stick in the mud and/or take a huge shot. Same thing is happening to HH now and I agree - it isn't very protective. It's sort of the opposite, because as a runner, it's almost like you're expecting the defender to let up as well, which isn't likely to happen.

What I'd like to see HH do on those plays is slide, dive, or just hit the turf.

[Guy Chamberlin]

17 minutes ago, Enhance said:

 I remember watching TMart do that and it would just drive me up a wall, because he'd look like a stick in the mud and/or take a huge shot. Same thing is happening to HH now and I agree - it isn't very protective. It's sort of the opposite, because as a runner, it's almost like you're expecting the defender to let up as well, which isn't likely to happen.
 

 

Yeah, but that was 2011 TMart. Watch him as a 2010 freshman and he was fearless, ready to take however many yards a defense would give him. It's not that he sought contact, he just took it like a running back or receiver would. 

 

But by all appearances that changed in 2011. I think the coaches realized the team would tank with Brion Carnes at QB and instructed Taylor to go down in the open field, like most NFL QBs are trained to do. I don't think that came naturally to a playground baller like Martinez, and he seemed to get caught in poorly timed hook slides that actually left him more susceptible to strips and injuries. 

 

Haarberg has had that same tentative look the past couple games --- after being more decisive and successful running the ball earlier in the season. Maybe the coaches thought they were playing with free money when Haarberg stepped in, but suddenly realized they can't go back to the Jeff Sims option.

[Mavric]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I have not seen an All 22 video recap of the entire Purdue game.  I thought “in its entirety” was pretty self explanatory. 

 

There was a second part to that question that was not self explanatory.

[Hilltop]

23 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Haarberg has had that same tentative look the past couple games --- after being more decisive and successful running the ball earlier in the season. Maybe the coaches thought they were playing with free money when Haarberg stepped in, but suddenly realized they can't go back to the Jeff Sims option.

There is also a pretty big difference in colliding with the average La Tech defender and an average B1G defender.  

[knapplc]

26 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

But by all appearances that changed in 2011. I think the coaches realized the team would tank with Brion Carnes at QB and instructed Taylor to go down in the open field, like most NFL QBs are trained to do. I don't think that came naturally to a playground baller like Martinez, and he seemed to get caught in poorly timed hook slides that actually left him more susceptible to strips and injuries. 

 

I'm not sure what caused it. If it isn't coaching, it's just plain bizarre that we have two different starting quarterbacks in two completely different eras of football who take the same hits. Especially when I don't see this happening with other quarterbacks.

[Archy1221]

5 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

There was a second part to that question that was not self explanatory.

The second part answer is no.  I made judgment based on the video posted that you specifically asked me to make judgement on.    

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yeah, but that was 2011 TMart. Watch him as a 2010 freshman and he was fearless, ready to take however many yards a defense would give him. It's not that he sought contact, he just took it like a running back or receiver would. 

 

But by all appearances that changed in 2011. I think the coaches realized the team would tank with Brion Carnes at QB and instructed Taylor to go down in the open field, like most NFL QBs are trained to do. I don't think that came naturally to a playground baller like Martinez, and he seemed to get caught in poorly timed hook slides that actually left him more susceptible to strips and injuries. 

 

Haarberg has had that same tentative look the past couple games --- after being more decisive and successful running the ball earlier in the season. Maybe the coaches thought they were playing with free money when Haarberg stepped in, but suddenly realized they can't go back to the Jeff Sims option.

 

 

I think the coaches (and the injury) broke Taylor. But broken Taylor was still fun to watch.

[Moiraine]

3 hours ago, Enhance said:

100% agree. 

I remember watching TMart do that and it would just drive me up a wall, because he'd look like a stick in the mud and/or take a huge shot. Same thing is happening to HH now and I agree - it isn't very protective. It's sort of the opposite, because as a runner, it's almost like you're expecting the defender to let up as well, which isn't likely to happen.

What I'd like to see HH do on those plays is slide, dive, or just hit the turf.

 

 

I still have memories of Taylor kinda slowing down into a crouch cradling the ball with both arms in his belly and then getting drilled.

[Mavric]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

I'm not sure what caused it. If it isn't coaching, it's just plain bizarre that we have two different starting quarterbacks in two completely different eras of football who take the same hits. Especially when I don't see this happening with other quarterbacks.

 

My speculation on Taylor was that after he got hurt the coaches told him he had to avoid taking so many hits so that's what he was trying to do.  But he could never get the timing right on when to give up on a run so it always looked awkward.

 

It is pretty bizarre that HH looks eerily similar lately trying to avoid taking a big hit.  It's like they've never had to do that before and they just can't bring themselves to get what they can then get on the ground.

[Mavric]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

The second part answer is no.  I made judgment based on the video posted that you specifically asked me to make judgement on.    

 

Which is exactly the point.  You can't seen any of the receivers to know what routes they are running, if they're open or not, and when the primary receiver gets to his break to know if he should throw the ball there or not.  So there's no way to say with any accuracy if he's locked on to the #1 receiver too long or not (not to mention the part about he could be looking at more than one receiver in the same general area).  

 

Again, there are times this happens.  He has force throws to Fidone before.  But there are also a lot of plays where he gets to a third or even a fourth receiver.  Another poster tried to claim he was trying to point to a play of an example of him staring down his #1 target too long when he was actually already on his second target and moving to his third.  People get something in their head and then they see it everywhere, whether it's actually there or not.

[PasstheDamnBallGuy]

19 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

My speculation on Taylor was that after he got hurt the coaches told him he had to avoid taking so many hits so that's what he was trying to do.  But he could never get the timing right on when to give up on a run so it always looked awkward.

 

It is pretty bizarre that HH looks eerily similar lately trying to avoid taking a big hit.  It's like they've never had to do that before and they just can't bring themselves to get what they can then get on the ground.

 

It seems like to me he just has a bit of decision paralyzes at times just in general. He has so few starts that you would think he will improve, but every QB has a ceiling on that and its hard to know where it is. Some of it also could be that there just aren't lanes on his option plays and WRs just aren't open, but he def seems to take a while to just pull the trigger or run sometimes. I think a lot about that like PA boot or whatever it was where he got demolished by 4 or when he runs the option he just seems to almost stop at the point of decision.  Taylor did seem similar to me in that he just took a little while to make a decision some times but he had the benefit of having upper end of elite level acceleration and speed. Haarberg has some top end but his acceleration is not great. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I think the coaches (and the injury) broke Taylor. But broken Taylor was still fun to watch.

 

Some of his best runs were in the 2012 season. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

5 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

I'm not sure what caused it. If it isn't coaching, it's just plain bizarre that we have two different starting quarterbacks in two completely different eras of football who take the same hits. Especially when I don't see this happening with other quarterbacks.

 

I think Nebraska is a bit unusual in its willingness to elevate lightly recruited run-first dual-threat quarterbacks, who could get away with running wild in high school, but suddenly look vulnerable when asked to be the leading rusher against college defenses that have learned to scheme against them. So yeah, I think coaches get a little nervous, even when they're the ones calling the run-heavy gameplan, and ask their QBs to go against their instincts by self-tackling at the first sign of contact. 

 

More polished QBs would know when and how to hook slide. I wonder if they ever did in high school. 

 

Would the Taylor, Tommy and Haarberg types have a longer leash if we had better QBs as back ups?  Maybe. 

[Hayseed]

Harby needs to protect himself from grabby Big Ten players.

[Archy1221]

5 hours ago, Mavric said:

hich is exactly the point.  You can't seen any of the receivers to know what routes they are running, if they're open or not, and when the primary receiver gets to his break to know if he should throw the ball there or not. 

Agreed you can’t always see the routes to their conclusion.  However, the cool thing about football is the amount of replays and the analysts calling the games, of which some of NU’s have had ex QB’s.   So we can see the live action play happen and then the replay shows another angle of the receivers and it’s fairly easy to piece things together.  
 

You also mentioned HH moving out the pocket and being on his 2 or 3rd read.  What you failed to mention, and you CAN clearly see in the video from the thread is Fidone breaking an out route and the should have been hitting him at that point.  Instead, HH keeps rollin GB out and waits till Fidone is nearly out of bounds and the defender now has the angle to cover.   Staring down a receiver can mean more than just staring down a first read.  It can also mean staring down in a scramble situation and waiting too long to throw.  
 

One of HH’s biggest areas of opportunity is throwing before the receiver is actually open, knowing he will be open when the ball arrives.   Waiting until the receiver is open to throw the ball can be too late in many instances and is another version of staring down the receiver (no matter what read he is).  HH does this too much.  
 

I think we can end this back and forth by acknowledging I think HH is lacking in the passing game, probably won’t get much better than what he is now and is so far a detriment to the offense in that aspect (for whatever reason people want to say….lack of experience, decision making, just not good enough, no QB instincts,  etc). And you seem to think he is fine but could use some improvement.  We are both entitled to see things how we do.