Trump Foreign Policy

[zoogs]

The ship has been built for 3 years and it's not working. How much is it saving us again?

 

I'm confused by this. Not working based on what? AFAIK *initial* operations testing was scheduled years ago for 2017, with deployment for 2019. It's still a pre-commissioned unit.

 

This isn't a consumer car, where you build it and roll it out into operation the same year. The USS Nimitz keel was laid down in 1968 and first deployed in 1976 -- a simpler system during a time in which the US was in an active war. The Ford keel was laid down in 2009. Even if there are more delays, I wouldn't say it's an atypical military project.

[RedDenver]

 

The ship has been built for 3 years and it's not working. How much is it saving us again?

 

I'm confused by this. Not working based on what? AFAIK *initial* operations testing was scheduled years ago for 2017, with deployment for 2019. It's still a pre-commissioned unit.

 

This isn't a consumer car, where you build it and roll it out into operation the same year. The USS Nimitz keel was laid down in 1968 and first deployed in 1976 -- a simpler system during a time in which the US was in an active war. The Ford keel was laid down in 2009. Even if there are more delays, I wouldn't say it's an atypical military project.

 

I believe it was originally planned to have a 2016 commissioning. There have been a bunch of problems and delays. The latest that I'm aware of is the electrical system, which has led to the Navy not even knowing when it will be delivered.

[ZRod]

 

The A-10s role is still as critical as ever, rapid extremely close air support on one of the most rugged air frames developed

Isn't the A-10 completely retired?

The biggest reason the F-22 is better than the F-15 is new computer/weapon systems. It probably would be just as competitive and a hell of a lot cheaper if the Eagle were upgraded. Not that I don't love the raptor.

Oh, I don't know. Being a stealth fighter that could fly circles around the F-15 is probably also part of it. It'd also be a lot cheaper if it were employed in the same numbers as the F-15 was.My understanding of the Ford-class is that it's just a redesigned Nimitz-class hull with internal/electronics/etc upgrades.

The A-10 is still alive and kicking. It is supposed to be phased out starting next year and fully retired in 2022, but I doubt that will really happen. There isn't another plane on the books that can do what it does, take the same amount of punishment, and bring the pilot home safe. Maybe the F-15 (there's a cool video about an Israeli pilot who flew an F-15 home with only one wing).

 

The Raptor is an amazing aircraft, but it's still vulnerable to 4th generarion fighters. The Euro fighter has been able to get simulated kills against it within visual range. And the Raptor use to lack the helmet mounted tracking system that almost all 4th gen fighters now have. The thought was that the enemy won't be able to get close enough to use it, but it put the raptor at a severe disadvantage in close range fights. Similar mistakes were made with the F-4 and removing it's gun.

[RedDenver]

 

 

The A-10s role is still as critical as ever, rapid extremely close air support on one of the most rugged air frames developed

Isn't the A-10 completely retired?

The biggest reason the F-22 is better than the F-15 is new computer/weapon systems. It probably would be just as competitive and a hell of a lot cheaper if the Eagle were upgraded. Not that I don't love the raptor.

Oh, I don't know. Being a stealth fighter that could fly circles around the F-15 is probably also part of it. It'd also be a lot cheaper if it were employed in the same numbers as the F-15 was.My understanding of the Ford-class is that it's just a redesigned Nimitz-class hull with internal/electronics/etc upgrades.

The A-10 is still alive and kicking. It is supposed to be phased out starting next year and fully retired in 2022, but I doubt that will really happen. There isn't another plane on the books that can do what it does, take the same amount of punishment, and bring the pilot home safe. Maybe the F-15 (there's a cool video about an Israeli pilot who flew an F-15 home with only one wing).

 

The Raptor is an amazing aircraft, but it's still vulnerable to 4th generarion fighters. The Euro fighter has been able to get simulated kills against it within visual range. And the Raptor use to lack the helmet mounted tracking system that almost all 4th gen fighters now have. The thought was that the enemy won't be able to get close enough to use it, but it put the raptor at a severe disadvantage in close range fights. Similar mistakes were made with the F-4 and removing it's gun.

 

Based on that Israeli pilot flying the damaged F-15, Rockwell Collins made an autopilot that could analyze and learn to fly a damaged aircraft. I don't know how successful they were, but it's a cool idea.

[zoogs]

Not really concerned with the dogfighting capability of the F-22. I don't think it's accurate at all to say it's vulnerable to 4th generation fighters on that basis. The Raptor's really in a class of its own, and to me it's a darn shame we didn't make more of them.

 

Glad to hear the A-10 is still in service!

[Making Chimichangas]

 

I am a huge proponent of aircraft carriers. I have said many times on here that I believe we should be moving more towards them and closing down a major amount of our military installations around the world. However, if we are going to spend $36 BILLION on these ships...is it too much to ask that they actually work?

 

FAILING SYSTEMS

Trump did not mention that the ship’s builder, Huntington Ingalls Industries, launched the Ford more than three years ago, but the Navy has yet to commission it and put it into service because of severe flaws. Many of its new high tech systems failed to work, including such basic ones as the “arresting gear” that catches and stops landing jets.

The Navy says the ship will be commissioned sometime this year. But the criticism has continued.

In a written statement in July, John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, noted the cost overruns and cited a list of crucial malfunctioning systems that remained unfixed. “The Ford-class program is a case study in why our acquisition system must be reformed,” McCain wrote.

 

I find it extremely humorous that the article claims the F35C fighter jet is needed to make these as useful as they should be. When you look at these two projects together, they are a case study of how NOT to procure new military equipment.

 

 

I concur with you 100%.

[ZRod]

Not really concerned with the dogfighting capability of the F-22. I don't think it's accurate at all to say it's vulnerable to 4th generation fighters on that basis. The Raptor's really in a class of its own, and to me it's a darn shame we didn't make more of them.Glad to hear the A-10 is still in service!

Nothing is perfect... We have some amazing technology, but there is more than one way to skin a cat and evade a trap. The Raptor will probably be untested in air combat for it's entire life, which is why we don't need many of them. Older cheaper aircraft can still fill niche rolls and be successful.

[Landlord]

I'm pretty ignorant about military/jet/ship technology - can someone explain to me why these things take upwards of a decade to go from first flight or voyage to being in active use, and also why the most advanced fighter jets in the world were built 20 years ago?

[RedDenver]

I'm pretty ignorant about military/jet/ship technology - can someone explain to me why these things take upwards of a decade to go from first flight or voyage to being in active use, and also why the most advanced fighter jets in the world were built 20 years ago?

There's whole lot of stuff that mostly has to happen in sequence: R&D, lab tests, design work, component testing, integration, system testing, flight testing, acceptance testing (I'm sure I'm missing some). And if issues are found at any step (which happens a lot especially for new/untested technology) then one or more of the previous steps have to done again. Lots and lots of iteration to get everything working just right. And that's just for the prototypes, which doesn't include the manufacturing process.

[ZRod]

And if the military changes the parameters mid development like the F-35, then everything gets delayed again.

 

A car takes about 4 or 5 years to develop before launch. From the first test mule built (prototype) to full production is at least a year or two. That's not nearly as advanced as a fighter jet.

[zoogs]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445708/f-35-replacement-f-45-mustang-ii-fighter-simple-lightweight

 

As far as I can tell, this article was written with a straight face.

 

Not all of the points are bad (to my layman's perspective), but this kind of fantasy exercise...

 

But all is not lost. With a small, disciplined, vendor-independent fighter-design team led by actual fighter pilots, the U.S. could begin production of a new world-class fighter in large numbers in nine years or less. Embodying the spirit of the P-51 Mustang, the best and most important fighter of the Second World War, the F-45 Mustang II, our new air-superiority fighter, will cost less than the newest version of the multi-role F-16 Viper.

...should not be considered fit to be carried on into a full-length article in a reputable publication. Wax nostalgic about WWII on your own time, man.

[Stumpy1]

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-navy-seals-f-35s-decapitation-strike-north-korea-2017-3?r=UK&IR=T

 

The annual Foal Eagle military drills between the US and South Korea will include some heavy hitters this year — the Navy SEAL team that took out Osama bin Laden, Army Special Forces, and F-35s — South Korea's Joon Gang Daily reports.

South Korean news outlets report that the SEALs, who will join the exercise for the first time, will simulate a "decapitation attack," or a strike to remove North Korea's leadership.

 

 

Thought this might interest some of you as you were talking about military budgets and spending.

[BigRedBuster]

Is one of these pictures actually of Trump bowing to the Deputy Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia? (Top right)

 

[NM11046]

I think he's doing the "no, please - be seated" gesture.

[BigRedBuster]

I think he's doing the "no, please - be seated" gesture.

I believe you are right. My post was somewhat of a joke making fun of the people who threw a fit that Obama was bowing to other world leaders.