Trump Legal Troubles

[TGHusker]

53 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's 100% possible you're avoiding the point. You voted for Donald Trump twice, and the man he was post-election is the man he always promised he would be. 

 

He's also the same man he was prior to the Presidency; an open book of self-serving fiction and a long trail of con jobs. 

 

Should he get the Republican nomination, you will vote for him again. 

 

I read your posts. 

Add to that - the person, Desantis, who Archie says he supports, is trying to out Trump Trump.  DeSantis is trump with a brain - well kind of with a brain. He is at least Trump without a personality.  He would do just as much harm long term as what Trump has done.  He's proving it in Florida. 

[Dr. Strangelove]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

So you know going forward, however, We don’t vote for people for what they do out of office.

Oh God, they haven't learned their lesson. They seriously are incapable of introspection.

 

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I’ll think about it…..ok, after some thoughtful consideration to your “advice”  I’ll pass.  Appreciate the comedy though.

We're doomed. These people are beyond parody and can't be saved.

[Lorewarn]

It's one thing to get duped by a conman more than once.

 

It's another thing to be unable to take the L internally, and instead resort to slippery and distracting fake concessions while still fundamentally denying that the current Trump with his long laundry list of con jobs, fanning flames of racial animosity, courting radical fringe actors, surrounding himself with criminals, and serially being unable to tell the truth or accept reality is the same Trump with the same attributes over the last several decades.

 

He might be more mentally unhinged as the walls close in around him and the anxiety and pressure become overwhelming, but these attributes didn't materialize out of thin air - they have only exacerbated from their original starting points of very much existing.

 

And if someone who formerly enthusiastically supported the absolute worst our country had to offer can't self-reflect enough to say, "I was wrong", and embrace their own dips#!ttery then it's a real shame and there's also no perceivable way of coming back so I don't think mockery and laughing at their expense is totally out of bounds.

[Fru]

- NY was for his actions prior to his presidency.

 

- Georgia and J6 were for his actions as a sitting President.

 

- Documents was for his actions after his term as President ended. 
 

Before, during and after. No one forced him to do these things. They are all of his own making and all could have been avoided with even a modicum of critical thought.
 

You either see him for what he is and vote accordingly. Or you continue to mental gymnastic your way to thinking that the most obvious con man to ever live is somehow fit for office. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

True and it makes my heart full that you are willing and able to have the introspection and come to grips with this assessment.   Good on you

 

And thank you for helping keep America off that slippery slope to marginally better healthcare, education, and basic human decency. 

[knapplc]

The Republican governor of Georgia seems a bit exasperated with the Republican party's 2024 front-runner.

 

Quote

 

The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen. 

 

For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward - under oath - and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible, and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor.

 

The future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus.

 

 

 

[commando]

i am still waiting for trumps evidence that obama isn't a U.S. citizen

[Decoy73]

With this “conclusive “ report, he’s doing nothing but trying to shed doubt on the fact that he knew he lost the election.   Legal strategy pure and simple.   

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, Decoy73 said:

With this “conclusive “ report, he’s doing nothing but trying to shed doubt on the fact that he knew he lost the election.   Legal strategy pure and simple.   

The election was 2.5 years ago and not one person has come up under oath to prove there was election fraud.  Meanwhile, every single person who is testifying against him, are Republicans and at one time supported him.

 

People who don't look back and say.....dang.....he should have never been President and I shouldn't have supported him, are not based in a sense of being self aware of mistakes.

[TGHusker]

43 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

It's one thing to get duped by a conman more than once.

 

It's another thing to be unable to take the L internally, and instead resort to slippery and distracting fake concessions while still fundamentally denying that the current Trump with his long laundry list of con jobs, fanning flames of racial animosity, courting radical fringe actors, surrounding himself with criminals, and serially being unable to tell the truth or accept reality is the same Trump with the same attributes over the last several decades.

 

He might be more mentally unhinged as the walls close in around him and the anxiety and pressure become overwhelming, but these attributes didn't materialize out of thin air - they have only exacerbated from their original starting points of very much existing.

 

And if someone who formerly enthusiastically supported the absolute worst our country had to offer can't self-reflect enough to say, "I was wrong", and embrace their own dips#!ttery then it's a real shame and there's also no perceivable way of coming back so I don't think mockery and laughing at their expense is totally out of bounds.

Ok,  I was about to say that Archie and other MEGA Cult members are a lost cause, but I reflected back.  In 2012 or thereabouts, I joined HB as a huge Glen Beck, Rush, Tea Party fan.   My family had concerns that I was going over to the dark side - too much negativity in my politics etc.  But 2016 was a wakeup call and I remembered what true conservatives believed and it wasn't the crap the current GOP has been dishing out under Trump.  Since then, I have moved to the middle -and depending on the issue - middle to slightly right to middle and more than slightly left.  I found again the compassion center of my heart that believed in the principles of my youth whereby Robert Kennedy and HHH were my political heroes.   So, by the grace of God I regained my perspective and I do pray the same for Archie and others like him.  

[Lorewarn]

32 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Ok,  I was about to say that Archie and other MEGA Cult members are a lost cause, but I reflected back.  In 2012 or thereabouts, I joined HB as a huge Glen Beck, Rush, Tea Party fan.   My family had concerns that I was going over to the dark side - too much negativity in my politics etc.  But 2016 was a wakeup call and I remembered what true conservatives believed and it wasn't the crap the current GOP has been dishing out under Trump.  Since then, I have moved to the middle -and depending on the issue - middle to slightly right to middle and more than slightly left.  I found again the compassion center of my heart that believed in the principles of my youth whereby Robert Kennedy and HHH were my political heroes.   So, by the grace of God I regained my perspective and I do pray the same for Archie and others like him.  

 

 

I do too, but then again the place we all were in 2012 was very, very different. Even the Becks and Limbaughs and Tea Party sycophants of the world were much milder back then, as hard as it is to believe. Still wacko, but nothing compared to the wildly escalated Circus of Nonsense of the last 7-8 years.

[Dr. Strangelove]

53 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Ok,  I was about to say that Archie and other MEGA Cult members are a lost cause, but I reflected back.  In 2012 or thereabouts, I joined HB as a huge Glen Beck, Rush, Tea Party fan.   My family had concerns that I was going over to the dark side - too much negativity in my politics etc.  But 2016 was a wakeup call and I remembered what true conservatives believed and it wasn't the crap the current GOP has been dishing out under Trump.  Since then, I have moved to the middle -and depending on the issue - middle to slightly right to middle and more than slightly left.  I found again the compassion center of my heart that believed in the principles of my youth whereby Robert Kennedy and HHH were my political heroes.   So, by the grace of God I regained my perspective and I do pray the same for Archie and others like him.  

Honestly this is a good thing, and I commend you for your willingness to mention it.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Ok,  I was about to say that Archie and other MEGA Cult members are a lost cause,

TCHusky..couple questions 

1) you have me on ignore, yet seem to bring me into many of your conversations.  Begs to question why? 
2)  you lump me into being a “Cult member” as a disparaging remark yet have me on ignore which again means you don’t know what I post so one begs to question why?  
 

As far as the “cult member” comments roll off your keyboard I’m pretty confident in saying I’ve voted for more Democrats between the years 2000-2020 than yourself, have criticized Trump for his post election shenanigans on this site, have been open in saying I voted for him twice but would not if her were the nominee a third time.   Your “Cult member” comments as it relates to me are quite insane.

 

 

[TGHusker]

In case you are trying to track all of the indictments against Trump, this long Vox article summarizes all of the cases against Trump in order of their seriousness.  

 

 

https://www.vox.com/trump-investigations/23832341/trump-charges-prison-time-sentence-indictments

 

Quote

 

1) Federal 2020 election case (District of Columbia)

How important is this indictment? Very important. As Vox’s Nicole Narea previously explained, this case “will legally define what a politician is able to do to reverse a defeat.” The outcome of this case could have major implications for the 2024 election and every race that follows: If Trump isn’t held accountable for the actions he took on January 6 and leading up to it, he and others could try to pull the same schemes in the future.

Ultimately, this case has a significant bearing on the future of US democracy.

Number of charges: Four felony counts. They include:

• Charge of conspiracy to defraud the United States, which includes plotting to overturn the results of the 2020 election
• Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, including plotting to prevent the 2020 election certification
• Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, which includes actually blocking the certification of the 2020 election results
• Conspiracy against rights, which includes a plan to deprive someone of a constitutional right (in this case, that is the ability to vote)

Potential jail time per count (these are maximum sentences that are unlikely to be imposed):

• Conspiracy to defraud the United States: 5 years
• Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding: 20 years
• Obstructing an official proceeding: 20 years
• Conspiracy against the right to vote: 10 years

 

2) Georgia election indictment

How important is this indictment? Very important. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis accused Trump and several of his associates of a sprawling racketeering conspiracy related to their efforts to overturn Biden’s win in the state. In contrast to the federal election indictment, where Trump is the only one charged so far, here 18 others were also charged for participating in this alleged conspiracy. These include famous names like Rudy Giuliani and former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, notorious Trump lawyers like John Eastman and Sidney Powell, and lower-level Georgia players.

Significantly, if Trump wins the presidency again in 2024, he would not be able to thwart this prosecution, since it is being carried out under state law.

Number of charges: 13 felony counts. They are:

• 1 count of violating the Georgia RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act, which is basically a catchall charge for the larger conspiracy to overturn the outcome
• 3 counts of solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer, which are about Trump’s attempts to convince Georgia officials to overturn the results
• 1 count of conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer
• 2 counts of conspiracy to commit forgery
• 2 counts of conspiracy to commit false statements and writings
• 1 count of conspiracy to commit filing false documents
• 1 count of filing false documents
• 2 counts of making false statements and writings

Most of those counts relate to the Trump campaign’s effort to put together a slate of “alternate” electors from Georgia who would purport to cast electoral votes for Trump rather than the actual winner, Biden

 

3) Federal documents case (Florida)

How important is this indictment? Important. This case centers on a president’s ability to endanger the country’s national security by taking and mishandling classified documents after leaving office. Documents that Trump kept addressed everything from US nuclear programs to the country’s defense and weapons capabilities to how America could respond in the face of a possible attack. Additionally, the case looks at how Trump obstructed FBI efforts to take back the documents.

Number of charges: 40 felony counts. They include:

• 32 counts of willful retention of national defense information, which includes keeping classified documents related to military activities and nuclear weapons
• 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice, which includes Trump working with an aide to hold on to classified documents and hide them from a grand jury
• 1 count of withholding a document or record from an official proceeding, which included efforts to hide documents from a grand jury
• 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record from an official proceeding, which included hiding boxes with classified documents
• 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation, which included covering up Trump’s ongoing possession of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago
• 1 count of scheming to conceal information the government is seeking, which includes hiding the fact that Trump still possessed classified documents
• 1 count of making false statements, which includes directing his attorneys to lie about returning all the classified documents in his possession
• 2 counts of altering, destroying, or concealing information the government is seeking, which includes plans to delete security footage

Potential jail time per count (these are maximum sentences that are unlikely to be imposed):

• Willful retention of defense information: 10 years
• Conspiracy to obstruct justice: 20 years
• Withholding documents from an official proceeding: 20 years
• Concealing documents from an official proceeding: 20 years
• Concealing documents from federal investigators: 20 years
• Scheme to conceal: 5 years
• Making false statement to the US government: 5 years
• Altering, destroying, or hiding something the government is looking for: 20 years

4) New York state case related to hush money to Stormy Daniels

How important is this indictment? Less important. This case is significant for the ways it addresses alleged wrongdoing by Trump, but it has fewer sweeping implications than the other indictments. It essentially highlights Trump’s recurring lies and falsehoods, but doesn’t really have the same broader democracy or national security stakes that the other cases have. Primarily, it centers on efforts by Trump to conceal hush money that was paid to porn actress Stormy Daniels so she wouldn’t go public about their affair.

Number of charges: 34 felony counts. All counts are centered on falsifying business records, which Trump is accused of doing to cover up the hush money payments to Daniels.

Potential jail time per count (these are maximum sentences that are unlikely to be imposed):

• Falsifying business records: 4 years

All of this leads to two big questions: Will these indictments derail Trump’s presidential bid? And do they mean Trump’s going to jail?

What do the four indictments mean for Trump’s chances of becoming president again?

Amid all this, Trump is running for president again and facing several challengers in the Republican primary. He retains a massive poll lead. These multiple indictments haven’t hurt him just yet; if anything, they’ve helped, as GOP voters have rallied around him.

Currently, Trump’s New York trial is scheduled for March 25, 2024, and his Florida trial is scheduled for May 20, 2024. Unless one of his challengers surges before then, he could have the nomination mostly wrapped up before either trial begins.

Then, even if he’s found guilty, or even if he’s jailed, he technically wouldn’t be disqualified from taking office. If he wins the GOP nomination, he’ll still be on the ballot in the general election. So only the voters can stop Trump from becoming president again.

Will Trump go to prison? How long could his sentence be?

The technical “maximum sentence” Trump could face if convicted of everything he’s been charged with is absurdly high — hundreds of years — but in practice, such high sentences are almost never given. Yet — though we’re a long way off from Trump actually being behind bars — he really is in danger of getting serious time.

His eventual sentence, if he is convicted, will depend on several factors in each jurisdiction, none more important than whether the juries will even convict him. The strength of each case and the politics of each area could well influence this — given political polarization, winning a conviction may well be easier in DC and New York than in the mostly conservative area of Florida where he will be tried. (Recall it only takes one holdout juror to block a conviction.)

Then, if he is convicted, what sentence will the judge hand down? Judges have broad discretion to hand down a sentence they feel is appropriate. Judge Tanya Chutkan of DC will hear the federal case against Trump for trying to steal the 2020 election, and she has been the toughest sentencer for January 6 rioters, suggesting she may lean more toward the maximum if given the chance. Meanwhile, Judge Aileen Cannon of Florida has the documents case, and she is a Trump appointee who has already arguably stretched the law to try and help him out; a conviction in her courtroom could be on the lighter side.

Once he’s sentenced, will higher court judges rescue him on appeal? Some of the cases against him use novel legal reasoning that hasn’t been tested before. So far, the Florida case appears the clearest and best grounded in precedent, while the election cases are more novel (no president has tried to do what Trump did before, after all) and the New York hush money case has been somewhat legally controversial. If Trump is convicted, then, his eventual fate may end up in the Supreme Court.

Finally, any Trump sentence could be scuttled if he wins the presidency. If Trump is back in power, he would likely use executive power to end the federal prosecutions against him (the DC and Florida ones), and perhaps even pardon himself. He could not end the state prosecutions — the Georgia and New York ones — but if he wins the presidency, he could likely put off serving prison time until after his term concludes. So, again, it’s the voters who ultimately have the power to maximize, or minimize, Trump’s chances of going to prison.