The Environment

[Moiraine]

All this this high level talk is really cheap from all sides. My questions to everyone that is so outraged. How have you changed your habits within the last few years to reduce energy use and waste? Very few people in the US and most developed countries care to give up their luxuries and most people in undeveloped countries are just trying to survive from day to day to care too much about the overall environment. But hey, we can keep taking shots at political leaders for doing what they do best and we can keep on not being responsible for our waste. Just keep buying the next shinny thing and throwing the old stuff away.

 

Of course people are "taking shots" at politicians. They are the ones making obviously crappy decisions. And doing what they do best? LOL.

 

Now to the actual question - I rarely run my a/c, try to bike and recycle, and I rarely eat beef (one if the biggest producers of methane gas). But all of that is pretty irrelevant. Households aren't the biggest drivers of pollution.

[jaws]

 

All this this high level talk is really cheap from all sides. My questions to everyone that is so outraged. How have you changed your habits within the last few years to reduce energy use and waste? Very few people in the US and most developed countries care to give up their luxuries and most people in undeveloped countries are just trying to survive from day to day to care too much about the overall environment. But hey, we can keep taking shots at political leaders for doing what they do best and we can keep on not being responsible for our waste. Just keep buying the next shinny thing and throwing the old stuff away.

 

Of course people are "taking shots" at politicians. They are the ones making obviously crappy decisions. And doing what they do best? LOL.

 

Now to the actual question - I rarely run my a/c, try to bike and recycle, and I rarely eat beef (one if the biggest producers of methane gas). But all of that is pretty irrelevant. Households aren't the biggest drivers of pollution.

 

Households are not the biggest drivers of man made pollutants are but people are. Nevermind....I am out of this conversation.

 

By the way...I don't get the "my team" and "Republicans/Trump/conservatives" because I don't think anyone that knows me in real life would say that about me.

[zoogs]

I get that supporting the GOP or Trump is unpopular these days. At some point, your own record means you cannot claim impartiality. I know plenty of people who profess that they aren't Trump guys, which I'm sure they believe in their hearts, but they offer nothing but down-the-line apologies and excuses. The actions belie the protestations.

 

You're welcome to continue to make this "individuals can effect more change than policy" argument. Or is it "households are the biggest drivers of pollution and no policy commitments can change that"? I'm interested to see where this goes.

[sho]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/812190/donald-trump-paris-climate-deal-agreement-speech-germany-angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron

 

Earth to Trump: F^&% You!

 

Imagine what headlines would be like here if they could just go off with vulgarities like that...

[ZRod]

Frankly, it's pretty clear your team (Republicans/Trump/conservatives) are being attacked and you're reacting poorly. It's a bad look.

Why do you and others do this? What about anything Jaws said lead you to believe he was a Trump/GOP supporter? You can be critical of anti Trump/GOP material and still not support the former. We should all know by now when you paint with that broad of a brush it derails any meaningful conversation.

[jaws]

I get that supporting the GOP or Trump is unpopular these days. At some point, your own record means you cannot claim impartiality. I know plenty of people who profess that they aren't Trump guys, which I'm sure they believe in their hearts, but they offer nothing but down-the-line apologies and excuses. The actions belie the protestations.

 

You're welcome to continue to make this "individuals can effect more change than policy" argument. Or is it "households are the biggest drivers of pollution and no policy commitments can change that"? I'm interested to see where this goes.

 

This is why people can't get together and discussing anything remotely touching politics (i know this is the politics forum). People get painted by others with a broad brush and it isn't even remotely true. But yes, you can twist whatever I said to make you sound like you won something. That is fine.

[TGHusker]

@TG -- Steve Bannon is not exactly what I'd call a "policy wonk". He's a political strategist and he created Breitbart. He certainly has an agenda and significant influence in political decisions. There is however nothing to suggest he is a detailed academic when it comes to policy. The "wonk" part of this seems entirely the wrong term.

Agree wt that part of it - wonk may be incorrect - but that is about as wonkish as Trump's immediate advisors get. Strategy is defining the policy instead of well thought out policy defining strategy.

[Danny Bateman]

To be fair, I've tried to make it a point to lay into those we've elected to Washington to make these indefensible decisions. I'm angry at the politicians, not people who might support conservative ideals.

But the onus does fall on us to vote better than this. We shouldn't put people who lie to our face in office - like Trump, Pence, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Sessions, Tom Price, Devin Nunes, Jason Chaffetz, Darrell Issa, Kevin McCarthy, or the "God will fix climate change" guy to office, just off the top of my head.

In the end, we're all one country. We deserve better than what we're getting from these people. But that requires us to undergo some introspection and really critically evaluate why people like these are failing us. Even if they have an R (or a d, as this should evaluate pols of all stripes) by their name.

 

I'm not begrudged at Trump supporter. Despite the numerous red flags, they thought he was a better choice than Clinton. I don't see how denigrating Trump voter is useful. Just be more skeptical of who you vote for and don't let this happen again.

[ZRod]

So shame on me, but this is the first time I've looked into the Paris Agreement...

 

From a quick wiki read (I know, I can do better); somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but we just said we would pull out of an agreement that had no binding terms and we could set our own goals for. Is this correct?

[schriznoeder]

Must be those pesky penguins...

 

[funhusker]

So shame on me, but this is the first time I've looked into the Paris Agreement...

 

From a quick wiki read (I know, I can do better); somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but we just said we would pull out of an agreement that had no binding terms and we could set our own goals for. Is this correct?

Yes. But if you keep reading you'll find that Obama was for it, so it "gots ta go".

 

I used the analogy of an office birthday gift for the receptionist. The whole office decided to chip in and show appreciation, chip in what you can afford and don't forget to sign the card. Trump stood up at his cubicle and made a public tantrum about how he won't be signing the card and he will buy his own gift. He then proceeds to give the receptionist the Snickers bar that he didn't have time to eat during lunch...

[zoogs]

This is why people can't get together and discussing anything remotely touching politics (i know this is the politics forum). People get painted by others with a broad brush and it isn't even remotely true. But yes, you can twist whatever I said to make you sound like you won something. That is fine.

I'm inviting you to substantiate your points, particularly on the environment, and here you are claiming affront and ducking out. Fine. They didn't seem very defensible anyway.

 

But, yeah. I didn't ask you nor do I expect you or anybody else to claim the mantle of political independence. Those who DO claim this should back it up and not expect a free pass for it.

 

It's okay to be partisan, guys. But be up front about that. That way, we can just talk about the merits of your policy positions instead of the gaslighting exercise that is "These down-the-party-line viewpoints are party and politics blind because I don't align with parties."

 

Lastly, people can and do get together, right here, to discuss politics. Just, be prepared to back up your assertions as well as to have them challenged.

[knapplc]

 

Frankly, it's pretty clear your team (Republicans/Trump/conservatives) are being attacked and you're reacting poorly. It's a bad look.

Why do you and others do this? What about anything Jaws said lead you to believe he was a Trump/GOP supporter? You can be critical of anti Trump/GOP material and still not support the former. We should all know by now when you paint with that broad of a brush it derails any meaningful conversation.

 

 

 

 

This is the line you find objectionable in this thread.

[ZRod]

 

 

Frankly, it's pretty clear your team (Republicans/Trump/conservatives) are being attacked and you're reacting poorly. It's a bad look.

 

Why do you and others do this? What about anything Jaws said lead you to believe he was a Trump/GOP supporter? You can be critical of anti Trump/GOP material and still not support the former. We should all know by now when you paint with that broad of a brush it derails any meaningful conversation.

 

 

This is the line you find objectionable in this thread.

I'd like to think I could hold you to a higher standard. That's all.

 

 

It's been said over and over again that people don't want to post in here because of exactly what you just did. You had excellent counters to the things Jaws brought up, but you couldn't just leave it there. You had to throw a broad label on it to get rid of any shade gray. He had legit concerns thay he brought up, that never meant he supported the GOP in anyway.

[Danny Bateman]

Kind of tangential, but I really like Rep Justin Amash's recent explanation of being ideological vs. being partisan. Amash is a pretty strict Libertarian. While I don't agree with many points of his ideology, I at least appreciate his candor and frankly, his spine. He's one of the very few members of Congress willing to buck his party's leadership in a principled, common sense way, as opposed to the Freedom Caucus's "burn it all down" way.