McKewon: The Great Nebraska Talent Debate

[knapplc]

This isn't an explanation of anything, just interesting to see where the old Big 8/Big XII teams are right now.

 

[Elf]

Well, it should be pretty easy to explain:

 

- new system, new coaches; acclimation period

- one hell of a lot of razor-close games

 

The interesting thing is the W/L causes a perception that the '15 team was so much worse than the '16 team. They weren't so far apart. Frankly, I think the '15 team might have the edge (though part of that is due to injuries causing the fade at the end of last year). What do you hate about such pieces?

There are some folks that you couldn't physically beat this into their heads no matter how long you hit them.

[Elf]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it should be pretty easy to explain:

 

- new system, new coaches; acclimation period

- one hell of a lot of razor-close games

 

The interesting thing is the W/L causes a perception that the '15 team was so much worse than the '16 team. They weren't so far apart. Frankly, I think the '15 team might have the edge (though part of that is due to injuries causing the fade at the end of last year). What do you hate about such pieces?

The acclimation excuse is just that. An excuse that is 'easy' to throw out there while there are other coaches who inherited/took on new teams only to have them miraculously do better. (Scott Frost, Jim Haraugh) and that's just a few off the top of my head. Also while Nebraska might have only had 1 player drafted this year there are a number of guys who are also getting serious looks/interest from NFL teams right now. For me the bottom line is Riley's teams have not been as talentless as McKewon makes them out to be and 2015 especially should never have been that bad.

 

uhhh, Michigan just put 11 players in the draft...

 

So that means Nebraska only had 1 talented player on the entire team last year?

 

It means Michigan was still pulling in guys like Jabrill Peppers (who at one point was considered the top prospect in his class) before Harbaugh was even hired. Per 247, they had 25 four star players and 2 five stars between the '13 and '14 classes (17 of those fours stars being in '13!!). Compare that to our 9 four stars between the '13 and '14 classes (with only 2 of those guys in the '14 class). I get that stars don't mean everything, but come on.

 

To compare Riley situation here to Harbaugh's Michigan tenure thus far is asinine.

 

First off the article isn't about comparing Michigan to Nebraska but if you want to go there then in case you couldn't figure it out Brady Hoke couldn't do what Jim Harbaugh stepped in and did with the very same talent.

 

you were the one who brought up michigan, and my point is that we don't have that kind of talent.

 

You missed the point entirely (acclimation period) with my mentioning of Harbaugh but sure.

 

Harbaugh and Riley inherited two completely different situations, a fact you regularly dismiss out of hand.

[lo country]

 

 

 

I think the talent is down. I think it is the best in the west though. I just want all the lame excuses gone.

I think our skill talent is, but our lines (specifically the OL) aren't great. And it's not because we're recruiting lower rated guys on the lines compared to the Big Ten West either.

 

I sense some criticism towards the current o-line coach.

 

I think the jury is out on Cav (he has this year to prove it, IMO), but Cotton and Garrison weren't great either. It's no secret how Iowa and Wisconsin have pushed NU to 3rd (or worse) in the division, and it definitely isn't because recruiting or raw talent.

 

We haven't had an OL drafted before the 3rd round since Richie Incognito IIRC. Our OL pipeline is and has been a joke for quite a while. That needs to get fixed asap. We have the talent now IMHO, do we have the coach....(Cav)

[84HuskerLaw]

How many all conference selections have we had the past 9 years? At any position? Not nearly enough to be championship caliber. To be fair, I am of the view that the Big Ten has been more than a tad biased against NU since we joined but the champions usually get more than their fair share and we have not been winning championships either. There is some reasonable hope for improvement in a number of positions in the next couple years it seems to me. Time will tell.

[Saunders]

 

 

 

 

I think the talent is down. I think it is the best in the west though. I just want all the lame excuses gone.

I think our skill talent is, but our lines (specifically the OL) aren't great. And it's not because we're recruiting lower rated guys on the lines compared to the Big Ten West either.

 

I sense some criticism towards the current o-line coach.

 

I think the jury is out on Cav (he has this year to prove it, IMO), but Cotton and Garrison weren't great either. It's no secret how Iowa and Wisconsin have pushed NU to 3rd (or worse) in the division, and it definitely isn't because recruiting or raw talent.

 

We haven't had an OL drafted before the 3rd round since Richie Incognito IIRC. Our OL pipeline is and has been a joke for quite a while. That needs to get fixed asap. We have the talent now IMHO, do we have the coach....(Cav)

 

Which is just bizarre, and IMO, it's just as much on development as it is on recruiting. Again, look at Iowa and Wisconsin. They aren't loading up on blue chip linemen, yet they consistently churn out good players.

[zoogs]

^This. I'm not going to discount the talent disadvantage and the roster mismanagement that put Nebraska behind the 8-ball. That said, the model Nebraska should try to get to is one where they can develop and churn out tough-nosed, competitive squads and not just when the recruiting/talent/roster stars are aligning.

 

We're not too far from that but I kinda wish we were closer.

[lo country]

^This. I'm not going to discount the talent disadvantage and the roster mismanagement that put Nebraska behind the 8-ball. That said, the model Nebraska should try to get to is one where they can develop and churn out tough-nosed, competitive squads and not just when the recruiting/talent/roster stars are aligning.

 

We're not too far from that but I kinda wish we were closer.

This. Develop what you have/get and shoot for the stars to get the "talent". Physical and mental toughness can over come some deficiencies.

[JJ Husker]

 

The talent gap is a moot point if we had a QB the last 2 years. Put a 60%+ guy under center and we win 10 or 11 games both years. Riley critics have to ask themselves- is there a coach in the country that could have compensated for Tommy's play? Sure hope the fan base can give Riley a fair shake with his recruits.

 

If the QB is the only reason that NU was so poor/average the past 2 years, what's the excuse going to be when NU wins 8 or 9 games in 2017?

Let me take a stab at this unanswered question.

 

There are no excuses this year. 2017 is fully owned by this staff. I dont believe that was the case the previous 2 years but it is now. As for the, what if only 8 or 9 wins, well that's TBD. No need going there until that's actually what we're looking at.

[teachercd]

 

 

The talent gap is a moot point if we had a QB the last 2 years. Put a 60%+ guy under center and we win 10 or 11 games both years. Riley critics have to ask themselves- is there a coach in the country that could have compensated for Tommy's play? Sure hope the fan base can give Riley a fair shake with his recruits.

If the QB is the only reason that NU was so poor/average the past 2 years, what's the excuse going to be when NU wins 8 or 9 games in 2017?

Let me take a stab at this unanswered question.

There are no excuses this year. 2017 is fully owned by this staff. I dont believe that was the case the previous 2 years but it is now. As for the, what if only 8 or 9 wins, well that's TBD. No need going there until that's actually what we're looking at.

Agreed and Riley cant have a combo of losses to crap teams

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

The talent gap is a moot point if we had a QB the last 2 years. Put a 60%+ guy under center and we win 10 or 11 games both years. Riley critics have to ask themselves- is there a coach in the country that could have compensated for Tommy's play? Sure hope the fan base can give Riley a fair shake with his recruits.

If the QB is the only reason that NU was so poor/average the past 2 years, what's the excuse going to be when NU wins 8 or 9 games in 2017?

Let me take a stab at this unanswered question.

There are no excuses this year. 2017 is fully owned by this staff. I dont believe that was the case the previous 2 years but it is now. As for the, what if only 8 or 9 wins, well that's TBD. No need going there until that's actually what we're looking at.

Agreed and Riley cant have a combo of losses to crap teams

I would agree with that but he didn't really have a combo of losses to crap teams last year.

Wiscy

tOSU

Iowa

Tennessee

 

I guess Iowa qualifies as a crap team. But any crap team would've rolled us that day. I think that game more than any other exemplifies why we should be much better off without TA and with 2 or 3 QB's who are much more suited to the offense they want to run.

[The Dude]

If Lee is half of what's been advertised, I see 1-2 losses tops.

[dvdcrr]

The Big 10 Conference is a meat grinder that you have to rise above. Sometimes I wonder if staying in the Big 12 would have been better for us. It would be back to NU OU and I would lobby for an annual game on or about Thanksgiving. Texas isnt much of a factor there now, at least On the field.

[spurs1990]

The Big 10 Conference is a meat grinder that you have to rise above. Sometimes I wonder if staying in the Big 12 would have been better for us. It would be back to NU OU and I would lobby for an annual game on or about Thanksgiving. Texas isnt much of a factor there now, at least On the field.

but $$$$$

[suh_fan93]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it should be pretty easy to explain:

 

- new system, new coaches; acclimation period

- one hell of a lot of razor-close games

 

The interesting thing is the W/L causes a perception that the '15 team was so much worse than the '16 team. They weren't so far apart. Frankly, I think the '15 team might have the edge (though part of that is due to injuries causing the fade at the end of last year). What do you hate about such pieces?

The acclimation excuse is just that. An excuse that is 'easy' to throw out there while there are other coaches who inherited/took on new teams only to have them miraculously do better. (Scott Frost, Jim Haraugh) and that's just a few off the top of my head. Also while Nebraska might have only had 1 player drafted this year there are a number of guys who are also getting serious looks/interest from NFL teams right now. For me the bottom line is Riley's teams have not been as talentless as McKewon makes them out to be and 2015 especially should never have been that bad.

 

uhhh, Michigan just put 11 players in the draft...

 

So that means Nebraska only had 1 talented player on the entire team last year?

 

It means Michigan was still pulling in guys like Jabrill Peppers (who at one point was considered the top prospect in his class) before Harbaugh was even hired. Per 247, they had 25 four star players and 2 five stars between the '13 and '14 classes (17 of those fours stars being in '13!!). Compare that to our 9 four stars between the '13 and '14 classes (with only 2 of those guys in the '14 class). I get that stars don't mean everything, but come on.

 

To compare Riley situation here to Harbaugh's Michigan tenure thus far is asinine.

 

First off the article isn't about comparing Michigan to Nebraska but if you want to go there then in case you couldn't figure it out Brady Hoke couldn't do what Jim Harbaugh stepped in and did with the very same talent.

 

you were the one who brought up michigan, and my point is that we don't have that kind of talent.

 

You missed the point entirely (acclimation period) with my mentioning of Harbaugh but sure.

 

Harbaugh and Riley inherited two completely different situations, a fact you regularly dismiss out of hand.

 

 

 

What kind of situation did Scott Frost inherit?