Weird Time for Christians

[TGHusker]

Trump plays religious followers like a .      Sad that in one's zeal to see that many willingly blind themselves to the obvious in order to gain the policies they desire. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-secretly-mocks-his-christian-supporters/616522/

[TGHusker]

Christmas,  a sacred date on the Christian calendar - perhaps not so sacred to Melania.

 

 

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/leaked-calls-reveal-melania-trumps-private-war-on-christmas-who-gives-a-fck-about-the-christmas-stuff/

[RedDenver]

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Moiraine]

24 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

 

 

Well, Christians tend to want the end times to come so they can be raptured. So that's a good reason to vote for Trump.

[commando]

my memory isn't what it used to be so i might be wrong...but isn't the rise of the anti-christ into power the beginning of the end times?

[RedDenver]

 

[Danny Bateman]

15 hours ago, commando said:

my memory isn't what it used to be so i might be wrong...but isn't the rise of the anti-christ into power the beginning of the end times?

 

I believe they've still got to mark people with the number of the beast on their right hand or their foreheads.

 

[commando]

project lincoln sends a salvo at the false prophets

 

 

[TGHusker]

Patriot Churches?? Jesus first but America a close 2nd.    If that is the formula, then it actually works out in practice to be America first, Jesus 2nd.  America in this case = the political right interpretation of America.  When the church or a church has this mindset they lose their ability to speak prophetically to the nation to call it to God.  When a church wraps themselves in their vision of America, their bias will prevent them to speak to the nation as both salt and light.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seeking-power-in-jesus-e2-80-99-name-trump-sparks-a-rise-of-e2-80-98patriot-churches-e2-80-99/ar-BB1apfB6?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

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Peters isn’t sure he likes the term “Christian nationalism” because he worries people will equate it with being a white nationalist or someone who hates Muslims and women — all things he disavows. But he concedes it fits the definition of someone who wants America to remain a Christian nation. “Some Christians are trying to shame those who love this country or love President Trump,” he said. “We’re saying, we’re not only unashamed, but we’re going to put it in the name.”

 

 

Respected evangelical pastor, John Piper rebuffs the concept of Patriot churches here.

John Piper is calling out those who support Trump (without saying his name) because of abortion while over looking how his corruption of character affects us nationally - in an evil, societal corrupting way.  We see it playing out on the streets and in the media. We see the rise of the alt right, Qanon, etc.   To place it in my own works "A Biden, who displays a character more consistent with Christian value, even though he supports a woman's right to an abortion, has a more positive affect on the nation's character than a Trump, who opposes abortion, but who displays anti-Christian character traits. 

 

 

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/policies-persons-and-paths-to-ruin

 

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Actually, this is a long-overdue article attempting to explain why I remain baffled that so many Christians consider the sins of unrepentant sexual immorality (porneia), unrepentant boastfulness (alazoneia), unrepentant vulgarity (aischrologia), unrepentant factiousness (dichostasiai), and the like, to be only toxic for our nation, while policies that endorse baby-killing, sex-switching, freedom-limiting, and socialistic overreach are viewed as deadly.

The reason I put those Greek words in parentheses is to give a graphic reminder that these are sins mentioned in the New Testament. To be more specific, they are sins that destroy people. They are not just deadly. They are deadly forever. They lead to eternal destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

They destroy persons (Acts 12:20–23). And through persons, they destroy nations (Jeremiah 48:29–31, 42).

In fact, I think it is a drastic mistake to think that the deadly influences of a leader come only through his policies and not also through his person.

“Flagrant boastfulness, vulgarity, and factiousness are not only self-incriminating; they are nation-corrupting.”

This is true not only because flagrant boastfulness, vulgarity, immorality, and factiousness are self-incriminating, but also because they are nation-corrupting. They move out from centers of influence to infect whole cultures. The last five years bear vivid witness to this infection at almost every level of society.

This truth is not uniquely Christian: “A little leaven leavens the whole lump” (1 Corinthians 5:6). “Bad company ruins good morals” (1 Corinthians 15:33). Whether you embrace that company in your house or on social media, it corrupts. There are sins that “lead people into more and more ungodliness” as “their talk [spreads] like gangrene” (2 Timothy 2:16–17).

There is a character connection between rulers and subjects. When the Bible describes a king by saying, “He sinned and made Israel to sin” (1 Kings 14:16), it does not mean he twisted their arm. It means his influence shaped the people. That’s the calling of a leader. Take the lead in giving shape to the character of your people. So it happens. For good or for ill.

 

 

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Therefore, Christians communicate a falsehood to unbelievers (who are also baffled!) when we act as if policies and laws that protect life and freedom are more precious than being a certain kind of person. The church is paying dearly, and will continue to pay, for our communicating this falsehood year after year.

The justifications for ranking the destructive effects of persons below the destructive effects of policies ring hollow.

I find it bewildering that Christians can be so sure that greater damage will be done by bad judges, bad laws, and bad policies than is being done by the culture-infecting spread of the gangrene of sinful self-exaltation, and boasting, and strife-stirring (eristikos).

How do they know this? Seriously! Where do they get the sure knowledge that judges, laws, and policies are less destructive than boastful factiousness in high places?

What About Abortion?

Where does the wickedness of defending child-killing come from? It comes from hearts of self-absorbed arrogance and boasting (James 4:1–2). It comes from hearts that are insubordinate to God. In other words, it comes from the very character that so many Christian leaders are treating as comparatively innocuous, because they think Roe and SCOTUS and Planned Parenthood are more pivotal, more decisive, battlegrounds.

“It is baffling to assume that pro-abortion policies kill more people than a culture-saturating, pro-self pride.”

I think Roe is an evil decision. I think Planned Parenthood is a code name for baby-killing and (historically at least) ethnic cleansing. And I think it is baffling and presumptuous to assume that pro-abortion policies kill more people than a culture-saturating, pro-self pride.

When a leader models self-absorbed, self-exalting boastfulness, he models the most deadly behavior in the world. He points his nation to destruction. Destruction of more kinds than we can imagine.

It is naive to think that a man can be effectively pro-life and manifest consistently the character traits that lead to death — temporal and eternal.

 

 

[jaws]

@TGHusker, I think Piper nails it in his response. I also think the church in the US needs to be pruned and it needs to distance itself from the politics it finds itself in. For some reason the church fears the government (or who might be in charge or the government) a lot more than standing before the God they claim to follow. It is probably a good time for the church in the US to repent and work out their faith. 

[TGHusker]

13 minutes ago, jaws said:

@TGHusker, I think Piper nails it in his response. I also think the church in the US needs to be pruned and it needs to distance itself from the politics it finds itself in. For some reason the church fears the government (or who might be in charge or the government) a lot more than standing before the God they claim to follow. It is probably a good time for the church in the US to repent and work out their faith. 

Yes,  the church should have and the constitution gives it a voice in the market place, but that voice cannot be stained by political bias less it corrupts its real mission, the communication of the gospel to the society at large.  This is also true of our more liberal brothers and sisters in the faith -  Politicians of both types love to go to churches and display how spiritual they are - at least at that moment - to gain votes.  I wish that in turn, the politicians would have sit and be spoken to by the faith leaders - on how they could better fulfill Micah 6:8  

He has told you, O man, what is good;    and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice, and to love kindness,^[and to walk humbly with your God

[RedDenver]

This. So much this.

 

[Ratt Mhule]

9 hours ago, RedDenver said:

This. So much this.

 

All one has to do is look at Joel Osteens house and it would be enough to turn rational thinking people away from the church. Doesnt mean you cant believe in God/Jesus. One doesnt need to go to church to be Christian. 

[Ulty]

5 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

 rational thinking people

There’s the problem