Will our democracy survive Trump?

[Vegas]

17 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

So, he lied about the bolded.  And....I remember him going to the border and prancing around a wall that he claimed he had started building.  But, that was fairly quickly debunked as not true.

 

 

Then why does he constantly cry because the justice department isn't investigating her?  Oh......and he promised to lock her up....then almost immediately after election claimed that he wasn't going to do that.  He sure got the votes for saying it though.

 

 

That's right.  Deportations actually increased under Obama.....than why does he think he needs to lie about Democrats wanting an open border and about them organizing caravans?

 

 

Us leaving NATO would have essentially broken up the entire thing.  But, I will give him credit for getting more countries to pay more.  However, many of those had already agreed to pay more before he was elected.

 

 

Which pretty much proves he knows nothing about the subject and it's ability to get information.....and......there's a little thing called the Geneva Convention that becomes a real problem.

 

 

I'll be interested in seeing how this comes to fruition.

 

 

 

But, let's not kid ourselves.  If it were the Clintons or Obamas not releasing their taxes, the Republicans heads would be exploding.  I actually find it funny that Republicans don't care if he releases them or not.  It pretty much proves that they don't care about anything legal as long as their agenda is getting passed.

 

I do hope you stick around and partake in meaningful conversation.  

 

I'm not a 100% Trumper for the record, so I'll call Trump out when I think he says or does something stupid. Both sides are hypocritical and love to point fingers at each other. But the left is far worse IMO. So please try not to associate me with one of those closed minded Trump supporters while I'll try not to label the you as a closed minded Obama supporter. I actually didn't like Trump during the primaries, I was a Marco Rubio supporter. But I have come to grow on him over the last couple years.

 

-The wall? Right when I heard Trump say Mexico would pay for it during the primaries I Iaughed. What incentive does Mexico have to pay for a wall that doesn't benefit them? Through trade? Good luck on that one buddy. Although trade has greatly benefited the U.S. as a whole since Trump took office.

 

-Can you give me an example when Trump was crying because of the DOJ? Critical yes, crying about it no. Name one president that has never been critical of our the three branches of government before. Dont worry I'll wait. And can you tell me when he "promised to lock her up." I assume you heard that from his supporters during one his rallies.

 

-Hey, I didn't have to say it you did. Obama deported more illegal immigrants then Trump did in his first two years so thank-you for being informed. Trump hasn't lied about Democrats wanting an open border. The democratic party has shifted significantly when it comes to illegal immigration and now you actually have politicians campaigning on it.

 

You're exactly right when it comes to NATO, the U.S. is the only reason why NATO still exists and only because of the U.S. taxpayers dime. We foot the bill while all these other countries pay almost nothing to benefit from it. I don't have a problem with Trump putting pressure on them to start paying up.

 

Regarding waterboarding, it's pretty irrelevant to today's political climate so I wont waste my time trying to discuss that topic with Landloard or anyone else right now. If it's that relevant then start a thread.

 

 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

That was a pretty easy google search. 

 

http://fortune.com/2016/10/10/donald-trump-special-prosecutor-hillary-clinton/

 

Specifically, in reference to her actions relating to her private email server, he said: “And I’ll tell you what. I didn’t think I’d say this, but I’m going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation, because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it, and we’re going to have a special prosecutor.”

 

When Hillary Clinton replied that it was “awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country,” Trump quickly added, “Because you’d be in jail.”

[Vegas]

42 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

That was a pretty easy google search. 

 

http://fortune.com/2016/10/10/donald-trump-special-prosecutor-hillary-clinton/

 

Specifically, in reference to her actions relating to her private email server, he said: “And I’ll tell you what. I didn’t think I’d say this, but I’m going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation, because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it, and we’re going to have a special prosecutor.”

 

When Hillary Clinton replied that it was “awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country,” Trump quickly added, “Because you’d be in jail.”

And you didn't find any humor in that? I know I was laughing my a$$ off when I heard it live on the debate stage in 2016. That will probably go down as one of the best comebacks ever in American politics.

[Landlord]

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

-The wall? Right when I heard Trump say Mexico would pay for it during the primaries I Iaughed. What incentive does Mexico have to pay for a wall that doesn't benefit them?

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

And can you tell me when he "promised to lock her up." I assume you heard that from his supporters during one his rallies.

 

6 hours ago, Vegas said:

Trump hasn't lied about Democrats wanting an open border. The democratic party has shifted significantly when it comes to illegal immigration and now you actually have politicians campaigning on it.

 

3 hours ago, Vegas said:

And you didn't find any humor in that? I know I was laughing my a$$ off when I heard it live on the debate stage in 2016. That will probably go down as one of the best comebacks ever in American politics.

 

 

 

The only thing you're revealing is that Trump is not trustworthy nor prone to tell the truth. About anything. And in most discussions or scenarios surrounding him, the two options are either that he's racist/hateful/x/y/z whatever OR that he's just a bulls#!tting opportunist who will say anything to gain more power. Most of the time it's probably the latter. But that's still....bad. That's still a terrible character trait.

 

All those things are things that Trump has said repeatedly and unabashedly, and said to the effect of whipping up American voters who actually believe in those ideas even if he doesn't. You're smart enough to take them as jokes or as baseless talking points - okay, that's good for you and I wish everyone was so smart. But millions aren't, and Trump is a con man dangling a carrot in front of them. Remember, he loves the uneducated.

 

also re: Trump lying about Democrats wanting an open border, yes he has. There are a very small number of individual Democrats who have talked about the idea (in a future idealistic context) but none that I know of who actively campaign on open borders, and it is not a part of the Democratic platform anywhere. But Trump repeats the lie ad nauseam.

[commando]

democracy...maybe

 

decorum?   oh hell no

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

Great. Another propaganda book designed to tear down trust in the government.

 

Only trust Trump. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Bump.

 

Old thread. Accused of being hysterical at the time. But I think it's going to be an open-ended question for years. 

[knapplc]

On 11/8/2018 at 12:58 AM, Landlord said:

I was just thinking that the biggest damage the Trump era has caused is that it has seemingly shown and taught those in power that they can more or less do whatever they want and get away with it.

 

Considering the Supremes just declared trump's emoluments violations "moot" because he lost the election, I'd say this was pretty prophetic.

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Bump.

 

Old thread. Accused of being hysterical at the time. But I think it's going to be an open-ended question for years. 

 

 

Agreed. If it isn't Trump himself it'll be Trumpism. If people don't suffer any kind of consequences, things are going to be even worse in a few years.

[TGHusker]

Through the years, there has been a seesaw power swing between that of an imperial president and a controlling congress.  I think in recent years, the Congress has given away too much of its power to the administration and agencies under the president's control.    Trump, with an enabling congress, became an imperial president - thinking he was above the law while also accomplishing much of his agenda via executive order.  I wonder if this current congress will grab back some of its power?  It may be difficult at this time with one of their own in the White House using his own EOs to initiate policy.

[Archy1221]

25 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Through the years, there has been a seesaw power swing between that of an imperial president and a controlling congress.  I think in recent years, the Congress has given away too much of its power to the administration and agencies under the president's control.    Trump, with an enabling congress, became an imperial president - thinking he was above the law while also accomplishing much of his agenda via executive order.  I wonder if this current congress will grab back some of its power?  It may be difficult at this time with one of their own in the White House using his own EOs to initiate policy.

Agree here about Congress, but I think they have been Relinquishing power time the Executive branch since the Bush years 

[Scarlet]

It's all going to boil down to whether or not Biden and the Democrats can govern effectively.  They need to guide our country through this pandemic and get people back to work while minimizing the pain and suffering the country is going through in the meantime.  If not the pull of Trumpism and fascism will be strong enough that democracy will crater soon after the next election. 

 

I really don't think the average Joe realizes how close we were to losing it all.  Trump supporters think they would like him as the führer but of course, that never ends well.

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

I really don't think the average Joe realizes how close we were to losing it all.  Trump supporters think they would like him as the führer but of course, that never ends well.

 

 

Agreed. I think too many people can't fathom that it's even possible, so even if they see it happening before their eyes it doesn't register, because "this is America."

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:44 AM, Scarlet said:

It's all going to boil down to whether or not Biden and the Democrats can govern effectively.  They need to guide our country through this pandemic and get people back to work while minimizing the pain and suffering the country is going through in the meantime.  If not the pull of Trumpism and fascism will be strong enough that democracy will crater soon after the next election. 

 

I really don't think the average Joe realizes how close we were to losing it all.  Trump supporters think they would like him as the führer but of course, that never ends well.

 

Bump. 

 

Per the OP, I'm leaning in the "no" camp.

[Archy1221]

8 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Bump. 

 

Per the OP, I'm leaning in the "no" camp.