Who should be our starting QB?

[Guy Chamberlin]

I just don't see a way around the eyeball test. Adrian Martinez doesn't have the confidence he did as a freshman, and it's crushing his decision making. Don't know what happened or why but he is now a Junior and he doesn't seem to be progressing. The risk of Luke McCaffrey playing worse appears to be minimal. Also, I think Scott Frost's mind was already made up. 

[Hilltop]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

So....2AM made very good plays with his legs when plays weren't there in the passing game.  He should be replaced because LM can make plays with his feet when it turns into a bad play.

 

Now....I voted for LM to get the start.  But, I'm confused on your reasoning because he can make plays with his feet.

I was (poorly) trying to point out the AM's game wasn't quite a bad as I first thought it was watching it live.  I think both can make plays with their feet.  I think both need work in the passing game.  However, LM has recently looked better, especially in the short passing game, and he seems to provide a little more energy to the offense.  Hard to describe but the team just looked different when he was in.  I think LM should be given the opportunity to start.  

[deedsker]

9 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

On a broader scale of thought, I'm just pretty frustrated with Frosty at the moment. I can't personally give him any excuses for the kind of crappy offensive performance our team put up against Northwestern.

 

Several things he seems to be doing aren't working. If one of those things is needing to start McCaffrey over Adrian, then let's make that change and see if the product is better.

 

My own prediction is that giving Luke a full game doesn't really make the product that much better, but I'm the first person to admit I could be totally wrong about that.

The second piece of McCaffrey looking better seems to be what receivers were on the field for him. Betts first catch is a high throw on a hitch route, but he is coming back to the ball and climbs the ladder as needed to get it. The next catch is another hitch route that is thrown better and Betts makes a move for YAC. 

 

A lot of other quality throws are to Fleming where he either ran a good route and the ball came out on time or he got separation on his route. Luke threw incompletions to Falck, Vokelek, Robinson, and interception for Warner.

 

I wonder how much better Martinez could look if he had more athletic receivers on the field all the time.

[BigRedBuster]

14 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I was (poorly) trying to point out the AM's game wasn't quite a bad as I first thought it was watching it live.  I think both can make plays with their feet.  I think both need work in the passing game.  However, LM has recently looked better, especially in the short passing game, and he seems to provide a little more energy to the offense.  Hard to describe but the team just looked different when he was in.  I think LM should be given the opportunity to start.  

I would agree with that.

 

 

[Undone]

51 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I just don't see a way around the eyeball test. Adrian Martinez doesn't have the confidence he did as a freshman, and it's crushing his decision making. Don't know what happened or why but he is now a Junior and he doesn't seem to be progressing.

 

This is not specifically fodder for the "who is better" argument. But what I remember last year was that Adrian rarely had good pass blocking. The pocket would pretty much instantly collapse, and he then took a lot of heat for not having "quick decision making."

 

But if you don't give a guy time to throw the ball it's just ridiculous.

 

The fact that he even threw 27 passes against Northwestern means he had the time to let the ball fly. And he also had much better time in the pocket against Ohio State. I still can't tell on TV if the problem is:

 

1. He has a receiver creating separation and a better or smarter QB would be releasing the ball, but Adrian is doubting himself and isn't throwing that pass.

 

2. His receivers aren't creating separation and so he's having to wait longer to see if somebody gets open.

 

It's easiest to just roll with #1 above as a fan and make Adrian the scapegoat. Just trying to be objective here.

[TheSker]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

This is not specifically fodder for the "who is better" argument. But what I remember last year was that Adrian rarely had good pass blocking. The pocket would pretty much instantly collapse, and he then took a lot of heat for not having "quick decision making."

 

But if you don't give a guy time to throw the ball it's just ridiculous.

 

The fact that he even threw 27 passes means he had the time to let the ball fly. And he also had much better time in the pocket against Ohio State. I still can't tell on TV if the problem is:

 

1. He has a receiver creating separation and a better or smarter QB would be releasing the ball, but Adrian is doubting himself and isn't throwing that pass.

 

2. His receivers aren't creating separation and so he's having to wait longer to see if somebody gets open.

 

It's easiest to just roll with #1 above as a fan and make Adrian the scapegoat. Just trying to be objective here.

Frost objectively said #1 on his radio call in show.

[Undone]

6 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Frost objectively said #1 on his radio call in show.

 

Thanks - I had definitely missed that. It kind of does sound like he's seriously entertaining starting Luke then against PSU?

[Wistrom Disciple]

9 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

This is not specifically fodder for the "who is better" argument. But what I remember last year was that Adrian rarely had good pass blocking. The pocket would pretty much instantly collapse, and he then took a lot of heat for not having "quick decision making."

 

But if you don't give a guy time to throw the ball it's just ridiculous.

 

The fact that he even threw 27 passes against Northwestern means he had the time to let the ball fly. And he also had much better time in the pocket against Ohio State. I still can't tell on TV if the problem is:

 

1. He has a receiver creating separation and a better or smarter QB would be releasing the ball, but Adrian is doubting himself and isn't throwing that pass.

 

2. His receivers aren't creating separation and so he's having to wait longer to see if somebody gets open.

 

It's easiest to just roll with #1 above as a fan and make Adrian the scapegoat. Just trying to be objective here.

Frost has also harped on #2 since the first season. One thing I have noticed is that there have been few and far between video shots where receivers were wide open at any point. 

 

Yes, Martinez is thinking and worrying about making mistakes too much but I do think he should remain the starter. However, Frost needs to get creative with Lubick to find ways to have both QBs on the field together. They are two of our top five playmakers on offense. 

[Husker in WI]

18 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

1. He has a receiver creating separation and a better or smarter QB would be releasing the ball, but Adrian is doubting himself and isn't throwing that pass.

 

2. His receivers aren't creating separation and so he's having to wait longer to see if somebody gets open.

 

 

14 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Frost objectively said #1 on his radio call in show.

 

He didn't say #1, he said some of the problem is not making quick enough decisions and then actively mentioned the other pieces that aren't consistently happening around the QB. Here's the quote as I found it: (OWH)

Quote

“In this offense, all the decisions have to be made so quickly, and the ball has to be out fast, and there’s just been a little too much hesitation at times,” Frost said of Martinez. “That hasn’t all been the quarterback’s fault. I said that a lot in the offseason. We need to be in the right places for him, we need to protect for him, we need to make things a little easier on them, because we need those guys making quick decisions, getting the ball out easier, on time, where it’s supposed to go, making quick decisions in the run game.

 

“If there’s something we need improve on with all the quarterbacks right now, it’s just making those split-second decisions.”

 

There's a difference between saying "there's a little too much hesitation at times" and talking about other offensive shortcomings and saying "receivers are open and he's not pulling the trigger." 

 

I do think Luke has a shot this week, and if AM isn't more decisive there'll be a quicker switch to Luke. But I didn't take Frosts comments to be anything along the lines of if our QB would let it loose when he should, all of our problems would be solved.

[TheSker]

19 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

 

He didn't say #1, he said some of the problem is not making quick enough decisions and then actively mentioned the other pieces that aren't consistently happening around the QB. Here's the quote as I found it: (OWH)

 

There's a difference between saying "there's a little too much hesitation at times" and talking about other offensive shortcomings and saying "receivers are open and he's not pulling the trigger." 

 

I do think Luke has a shot this week, and if AM isn't more decisive there'll be a quicker switch to Luke. But I didn't take Frosts comments to be anything along the lines of if our QB would let it loose when he should, all of our problems would be solved.

However you want to classify "not making quick enough decisions" is fine with me.

 

Martinez is not making quick enough and accurate decisions.  It's going to cost him the starting job at some point.  Maybe Saturday.

 

And yes, Frost's heart breaks for Martinez.

[TheSker]

14 minutes ago, Wistrom Disciple said:

Frost has also harped on #2 since the first season. One thing I have noticed is that there have been few and far between video shots where receivers were wide open at any point. 

 

Yes, Martinez is thinking and worrying about making mistakes too much but I do think he should remain the starter. However, Frost needs to get creative with Lubick to find ways to have both QBs on the field together. They are two of our top five playmakers on offense. 

At some point, instead of McCaffrey and Martinez at the same time, we will be using Wandale or Alante along with Martinez or McCaffrey.

[TheSker]

9 minutes ago, TheSker said:

 

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

5 minutes ago, TheSker said:

At some point, instead of McCaffrey and Martinez at the same time, we will be using Wandale or Alante along with Martinez or McCaffrey.

That works too, they just need to get creative. Having Luke sit on the sidelines for nearly three quarters, no Brown, limited Manning, Betts and Fleming really pulls back the potential. I'm sure Falck and Werner are solid individually, but they don't come across as deep ball threats. Therefore, the defense is compressed within 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage and our QBs have to then become precision passers or Patrick Mahomes in order to get receivers open with space. 

 

It is one aspect we have been reluctant to try since Bo would do so with Armstrong and Quincy Enunwa. Sure the throw can be risky but we have to have threats down field if our read options, draws, screen passes are going to work. It would be nice to see us try Hickman, Manning, Betts run Go routes and then toss one up every once in awhile. Takes the corner out and likely pulls a safety which opens up much more of the field for the run game and passes to Wandale in the slot.

[TheSker]

10 minutes ago, Wistrom Disciple said:

That works too, they just need to get creative. Having Luke sit on the sidelines for nearly three quarters, no Brown, limited Manning, Betts and Fleming really pulls back the potential. I'm sure Falck and Werner are solid individually, but they don't come across as deep ball threats. Therefore, the defense is compressed within 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage and our QBs have to then become precision passers or Patrick Mahomes in order to get receivers open with space. 

 

It is one aspect we have been reluctant to try since Bo would do so with Armstrong and Quincy Enunwa. Sure the throw can be risky but we have to have threats down field if our read options, draws, screen passes are going to work. It would be nice to see us try Hickman, Manning, Betts run Go routes and then toss one up every once in awhile. Takes the corner out and likely pulls a safety which opens up much more of the field for the run game and passes to Wandale in the slot.

Right now, Betts seems to be a better bet than Manning 

[RedSavage]

2 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Right now, Betts seems to be a better betT than Manning 

FIFY