2023 Spring Practice Notes - Offensive Line

[Mavric]

 

[Undone]

The quote from Rhule about Raiola is encouraging, but...

 

This is probably a dead horse, but I'm going to say that if some of these offensive linemen don't actually play visibly better this season, there aren't any excuses. "Zach Duval had the guys' bodies too tensed up," or "well there's still some Greg Austin coaching in these guys" or anything like that is out the window this year, IMO.

 

If Raiola is a good offensive line coach, then this year is going to be better. If the play isn't better, then he isn't a decent coach; I really think it's that cut & dry. Turner Corcoran was like the 6th overall offensive tackle in his senior class according to 247 Sports if I'm not mistaken, and he was recruited by these schools (among others):

 

-Michigan

-Ohio State

-Georgia

-Clemson

-Oklahoma

 

If a kid like that isn't performing much better this year, for me it's 100% on this staff. It can't be as hard as our program consistently makes it out to be.

[Red Five]

6 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

If a kid like that isn't performing much better this year, for me it's 100% on this staff. It can't be as hard as our program consistently makes it out to be.

 

 

I am not going to lay blame on this staff for the OL being junk again this year. By the end of next year if the line is still terrible, then sure.

 

Unless things are a complete dumpster fire, I don’t think it’s fair to draw any conclusions about this staff until the end of year 2.

[Undone]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

 

 

I am not going to lay blame on this staff for the OL being junk again this year. By the end of next year if the line is still terrible, then sure.

 

Unless things are a complete dumpster fire, I don’t think it’s fair to draw any conclusions about this staff until the end of year 2.

 

I feel like it's a bit different with Raiola because it's year 2 for him. He's been with these guys for a year and a half. If he's actually a good O-line coach, surely there'll be some kind of improvement seen even this season.

 

But yeah, not a critique on the staff as a whole.

[admo]

Feel bad for Teddy being dinged up...  Before the grind of fall camp.  And he possibly questionable for the season opener (per Rhule on whatever post practice vid - 1 or 2 games).  Also.... NN in green shirt?

 

I do hope they heal up.  We are going to need them for depth as the season goes on.  

 

But honestly, I really haven't seen much of Teddy in 2 years, and NN didn't even play last season.  Started 6 games possibly the year before.  So I really don't consider them these super starter offensive linemen.  In fact, I'm not sold on them being starters as long as they spend so much time off the field recovering from something or another.  

[Dr. Strangelove]

8 hours ago, Undone said:

 

I feel like it's a bit different with Raiola because it's year 2 for him. He's been with these guys for a year and a half. If he's actually a good O-line coach, surely there'll be some kind of improvement seen even this season.

 

But yeah, not a critique on the staff as a whole.

I would argue that he's not a miracle worker. It could just be that the line is just full of bad players, which they are. It sucks that they haven't lived up to their recruiting rankings but that happens. 

 

If you give a coach piles of s#!t and expect him to sculpt it into a Michaelangelo pieces of art, that might be a tough task. He should be judged as a coach by his recruiting ability and ability to develop them. To my knowledge, not a single lineman projected to start was recruited by him. 

 

I don't know if he'll be given the time to prove that since the line is pretty likely to be extremely bad again, but those are my opinions. 

[Decked]

Donnie hasn’t exactly had much to work with I agree. Hard to make chicken salad out of chicken s#!t. 

[gobiggergoredder]

I guess I still struggle with the general acceptance that our lineman are just terrible.  I find the comparison to "piles of s#!t" or "chicken s#!t" out of line, but it is what it is.  Is it really possible that ALL of these 4 and 3 star lineman are terrible?  Have we really struck out that bad?

 

What position group has excelled in the last 10 years?  It's fair to make the assessment that you can't do anything if your line, on both sides of the ball is suspect, but.......

 

Our special team have been awful for years.  We had a scholarship punter that couldn't punt.  There was a stretch where field goals were far from automatic.  The team in general is ravaged by turnovers, penalties and poor clock management.  I think the tackling has been suspect for a long time (never worse than the Riley era).  Chins love for the prevent, non attacking, defense made a lot of the players look like dummies.   Defensive lineman making tackles 7 yards downfield (because they were blown off LOS).

 

I'm going back to it again.  Stop writing these O-Lineman that are in the program off.  Their body of work in a poor system may not be all that they are capable of.

[Nebfanatic]

7 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I would argue that he's not a miracle worker. It could just be that the line is just full of bad players, which they are. It sucks that they haven't lived up to their recruiting rankings but that happens. 

 

If you give a coach piles of s#!t and expect him to sculpt it into a Michaelangelo pieces of art, that might be a tough task. He should be judged as a coach by his recruiting ability and ability to develop them. To my knowledge, not a single lineman projected to start was recruited by him. 

 

I don't know if he'll be given the time to prove that since the line is pretty likely to be extremely bad again, but those are my opinions. 

The only pile of s#!t I see is this post. There is absolutely no reason to be referring to our student athletes in this way. You can hold the opinion that they aren't very good players, but there is absolutely no excuse for calling them what you did. I have no respect for posts or posters like this.

[runningblind]

And we've now reached the point in the offseason where folks are just bickering amongst themselves.  Can it just be actual game time so we all have something better to talk about?

[suh_fan93]

Doesn't feel like it's 22 days away.  

[Undone]

10 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

If you give a coach piles of s#!t and expect him to sculpt it into a Michaelangelo pieces of art, that might be a tough task.

 

I think this maybe gets kind of circular though.

 

So we have to wait how many more seasons to determine that we just didn't have good enough OL talent before we determine whether the guy can coach the position? Serious question there.

 

Back to this season & predictions there, I think if Nouili is healthy and plays at least at the level he did in 2021 that our line has a good chance of being better across the board.

[Wistrom Disciple]

3 hours ago, gobiggergoredder said:

I guess I still struggle with the general acceptance that our lineman are just terrible.  I find the comparison to "piles of s#!t" or "chicken s#!t" out of line, but it is what it is.  Is it really possible that ALL of these 4 and 3 star lineman are terrible?  Have we really struck out that bad?

 

What position group has excelled in the last 10 years?  It's fair to make the assessment that you can't do anything if your line, on both sides of the ball is suspect, but.......

 

Our special team have been awful for years.  We had a scholarship punter that couldn't punt.  There was a stretch where field goals were far from automatic.  The team in general is ravaged by turnovers, penalties and poor clock management.  I think the tackling has been suspect for a long time (never worse than the Riley era).  Chins love for the prevent, non attacking, defense made a lot of the players look like dummies.   Defensive lineman making tackles 7 yards downfield (because they were blown off LOS).

 

I'm going back to it again.  Stop writing these O-Lineman that are in the program off.  Their body of work in a poor system may not be all that they are capable of.

I think you're spot on. Frost and his OCs were terrible in game management. Sure they had some creatively designed plays, but they often failed at game or situational management. There was often no flow to our offense and, at least last year, we had runningbacks afraid to hit the hole to accept 3-5 yard gains instead opting to try and go outside where they were too slow to outrun defenders to the sideline. The Wisconsin game last year is the most memorable part where I remember being surprised that the line was actually creating some holes, but the backs were constantly trying to bump outside for the big play instead of taking the ground available. Hopefully Rhule and Satt will not be so in love with the splashy home run plays and be willing to grind out drives to not only help the offense, but give our defense a break more often.

[Undone]

@Wistrom Disciple: Yes, it'll be interesting to see what kind of run schemes & blocking schemes Rhule rolls with. I agree that Frost did a lot of inside zone but that at times last year our backs didn't even hit the holes that were there inside with intensity. And it maybe made the line's work look worse than it really was.

 

Anthony Grant had 900 some yards in 12 games nonetheless. Now those yards were maybe more heavily inflated against some inferior competition. But some of that stuff will maybe get worked out by the staff with more real game-type practice scenarios and just better coaching. That wouldn't surprise me.

[Dr. Strangelove]

5 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

The only pile of s#!t I see is this post. There is absolutely no reason to be referring to our student athletes in this way. You can hold the opinion that they aren't very good players, but there is absolutely no excuse for calling them what you did. I have no respect for posts or posters like this.

Really it was just an analogy buddy. They're pretty terrible, however. 

 

Let's not act like this iteration of the Oline has been anything other than a disaster. The last 4 quarterbacks thats had the misfortune of taking snaps behind it has been injured. 

 

One of those quarterbacks had his jaw wired shut and ate through a tube for half a season. All three quarterbacks from last season - protected by the very same OL we're entering 2024 with - were injured. Two of them required off season surgery. 

 

This line isn't just bad. It's actively dangerous to play behind, as all the QBs who's taken snaps behind it can attest.