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One trend I am really noticing, in general many of us are forming our opinions typically by our local experiences. In rural Nebraska we have next to no active cases, I'm coaching youth baseball, going out to eat, and living pretty dang normal. It's easy to think there will be a normal football season. If you are living in a hotspot, I can understand how opinions would be drastically different. I just spoke to an old friend this morning. He has been forced to work from home for over 3 months. His area has widespread active cases with no sign of it slowing down. He doesn't think there is any chance we play this fall. Regardless of location, I am talking to more and more people who disagree with the society protection methods. I don't believe it's the governments job to protect us from ourselves. Imo, each individual should have the right to make decisions about their own health. By all means, wear a mask, limit exposure time etc if you so choose. To me, that means that individual players should be given the opportunity to choose whether or not to play. Most of these kids want to play football and I believe we should let them play.

Not sure what you mean by “freedom” but I hope you are not in some way dismissing freedom (basic civil / human rights) like all that stuff in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, especially that little section called the Bill of Rights. There can be a tendency for people to be willing to give up freedom in exchange for security. This is short-sighted and often in the long term ends up with the loss of both. Even temporary infringements are unconstitutional and must be protected. The shutdown orders are unprecedented, extreme, very arbitrary and capricious. Based on the “police powers” mostly, at most these actions should be minimized (scope, time, etc). After months and months and very little real evidence as to efficacy as to purpose and application, the tolerance of the people to be subjected to all of this amazes me. On one hand, it shows the strong community spirit of cooperation with what has been presented as a national health emergency (it is). On the other hand, it troubles me greatly to see the submissive and almost ignorant reaction by so many to the deprivation of life, liberty and property and inalienable rights. These are the essence of freedom that is America at its core.

Ok, but the medical experts don’t make the restrictive laws going on. I assume medical experts want everyone to wear masks. I just saw a deal in Oregon if you are white you have to wear a mask- if your anything other than white you don’t have to wear a mask to protect against racial profiling. If it is about being safe then what is that? That’s politics not medicine

It is like talking to a wall, remotely. Remote learning at the college level is done to make money, it makes sense. Hire an adjunct, give that person 4,000 dollars to teach a course, load them up with 3 sections of 25 students each...all who are paying 2,000 to take the class. Boom. Prof posts an assignment for each week...students belt it out and comment on 3 of their classmates work. On to the next week. It is effective because you are in college and you know what you are doing and you tend to have time/privacy Now, tell a 6 year old to sit in front of zoom for 40 minutes while they learn math...good luck with that! How about a 12 year old that is online with their class and their 10 year old brother is bugging them non-stop because well...that is what siblings do! Or hey, try and have a serious talk about big issues where people are freezing up (their connection) and others have s#!t sound or get bumped out of the zoom room. Or how about the 16 year old that has to babysit their little bro and sis WHILE trying to do class. Oh yeah, PE works really well over zoom... I don't mind teaching remotely because it made my life easier. But I don't think it was great for the kids.

WOW.... In other words, you have no answer for how stupid and self serving your dear leader is.

and, are required to register as a foreign agent in certain situations. For some reason, the Law and Order crowd doesn't like the Law and Order when it pertains to people they like.

If only we would put Dustin Hoffman in charge of the White House coronavirus task force this would all be over already. He cured the outbreak disease in like a week

Yep. We really cocked this one up. Say hello to the countries that will be playing sports sooner than we will.

I believe that this opinion and the actions of those that hold it are the reason we won't have college football.

Yeah, it's getting political, but how can you possibly have a "Will There Be a Football Season" discussion without talking about the various authorities who will affect that decision? There are plenty of football threads with zero politics you can visit. Let this one wander as needed. Some interesting voices here that typically avoid P&R.

C'mon. There's a whole forum for this.

A Covid-19 carrier can walk freely in our country without breaking any laws, regardless of your opinions. Covid-19 isn't going to be stopped by a vaccine or more economy crippling mandates. There is a good chance this will be with us for many years and will only be curbed by some herd immunity. People need to adjust as they see fit. As a country we are not capable of continuing the way we have the last several months. Many people realize that and are either courageously or blindly moving forward with their lives. I also believe that much of the message we are being fed is political. I expect a softening of the messages within weeks after the election this fall because even our government, regardless of who wins the election, knows we can't continue this charade. Can football happen this fall. Of course it can but will the party trying to get into office allow it? Time will tell.

People straight up don't understand the domino effect. Thats great that individuals don't mind taking on more risk, but they don't wrap their heads around the fact that it could inadvertently put others at risk. If hospitals fill up because of lax COVID restrictions, we're talking heart transplants that can't take place, trauma patients that can't be cared for, elective surgeries on hold - all due to a strained system with a lack of resources.

He's attempting to reach regular people. People ignore the #s anyway. The 3% was the current deaths/cases at that time, it wasn't an estimate of what the mortality rate would be. Knowing the exact mortality rate isn't that important right now. Total cases, hospitalization rate and hospital capacity are the most important. Even if the mortality rate is very low, we don't have immunity, so there's potential for a lot of people to get it in a short amount of time. The ability to care for patients is the #1 most important factor. It's the bottle neck that should be the main concern when making policy decisions. Because if hospitals fill up it affects people getting treated for other health issues.

Meh. I'd prefer to have my "voice of reason" served up with a side of actual statistics. We need an update on the actual death rate from Fauci. He said in this address that we will "be seeing more deaths." Cool story, bro. What is the death rate? Because that's critical to this conversation. In March, we were told it was 3%. That was actually quite scary. Then, around May 20th-ish, the CDC released its report finding that using its best available data at that point, it was actually .4% - meaning, the original estimate of 3% was off by an over 700% margin of error. Another month has passed. Where is the calculated death rate at, Fauci?

I think what you'll start to see play out is the fear of liability start to dictate the conversation. We could have this conversation as it pertains to commerce in general and then how it pertains to the business of college football. Goes without saying that "it's all about money." A phrase that gets used ad nauseum but is nevertheless so true. The legal teams of the NCAA and universities are no doubt scurrying to find that sweet spot where revenue hovers comfortably over the amount of estimated, potential litigation damages/payouts (that will undoubtedly occur, make no mistake). This is going off topic slightly but still an example: We're seeing this right now with Lincoln Public Schools' decision they just announced to force all students to wear masks this year. This is obviously not some altruistic and good-hearted "let's all band together to stamp out Coronavirus" effort; it's about avoiding max pain from litigation by the teachers' union. It's so that they can say "we did everything we could" if/when they wind up in court because a teacher got a respiratory illness. I'd say this angle of limiting liability needs to be kept in mind in the context of the football season for sure.

I think there's a good chance Trump doesn't do the debates.

Promote the general welfare means what it says. Basically government ought to serve the public interests within the limits of the Constitution’s prescribed and limited powers. It is not some kind of all inclusive grant - rather more of a purposeful clause. It is not some kind of broad form exception phrase. imo.

This is wronger than your "the new science teacher makes way more than the old lady teacher" post. The cops didn't make up that the drinks/shakes tasted funny. First rule of holes...when you are in one...stop digging.

Ha...get ready! Here comes a rollercoaster of excuses...

The problem with comparing it to the flu is that humans have some built in immunity to the flu and a vaccine that helps prevent infections. So, only 25-50 million people a year get the flu and .1% die for somewhere around 25-60k deaths a year. And the age is even more skewed to the elderly as well as no long lasting effects. With Covid, we have no immunity and no vaccine to help prevent infections. So, let's say a really safe estimate is half of 330 million people get it before herd immunity slows the spread some and the death rate is 0.5%. That's 575,000 deaths or almost 10 years of flu deaths at the high end of estimates. In addition, we are only beginning to understand the long term effects this has on the body.

37 Clemson players. Half had symptoms. No hospitalizations. 430 tests total thereabouts. It’s Less than 10% with no bad illness. a Johns Hopkins doctor on the radio today said he thinks 10x people have had it nationally which would make for 20-25 million cases, with 125,000 deaths. That’s .5%, the flu is .1%... just some numbers I heard today...anyone else hear of how we’re doing or other national teams?

I believe our current President has declared the coronavirus an international attack.

I have 1 assessment that I am 100% confident in. If we could still use the eye roll post emoji- this thread would have had the most used ever in football topics

No kidding. If you down play it at all...you are an evil Trump supporter that hates science. If you fear it...you are a huge sissy that loves Biden. This has almost become so stupid that you have to talk about it in hushed tones depending on who you are around.

*Edit knapp beat me to it

I don't believe a persons health is mentioned anywhere in the constitution. If you want to live somewhere that people are told what and when to do something throughout every aspect of their lives, feel free to move to communist country. I know many people who would gladly catch this and move forward if they had the opportunity. Several of them are football players. By the way, as you and Branno have told me in the past, try to stay on topic.

I'm inordinately excited about my whet stone that just arrived and sharpening my chef's knife for the first time... ever. I'm also thinking about ordering a better knife sometime soon, something like a Damascus steel. Anyone have one of those?

So, asymptomatic

No, post related to 1) "promoting the general welfare" 2) as it related to U.S. Const. Gov't has "power" but "responsibility" is a completely different term, albeit with much overlap.

Longtime lurker here, sad to say first post is vastly unrelated to football. "Promote the general welfare" has no substantive value in the preamble of the U.S. Constitution per the Supreme Court ("SCOTUS"). The other reference to general welfare is located in Congresses' Spending power somewhere in article I. It qualifies Congresses power to spend and tax. From my limited understanding, it's unrelated to a catch all phrase that encompasses emergency situations. For that, possibly see Congresses "Commerce clause." or the President's emergency powers in article II. The real debate to "providing for the general welfare" relates to the Hamilton view vs. Madisonian view. Hamilton has won out in the longterm as the SCOTUS has interpreted Congresses' ability to tax is not confined to their enumerated powers. They have the ability to tax and spend if it relates "to the general welfare" with a few caveats. Now, hopefully back to some football. Best wishes all.

The shutdown orders were, in fact, delayed, inconsistent, and often un-enforced, but they were ultimately effective. Any interpretation of the data shows a clear correlation between quarantine mandates and flattening the curve, just as it shows a correlation between the recent loosening of restrictions and the resurgence of the virus. You can't blame the scientists for knowing this, nor the many levels of government that have to make difficult public health decisions. Not to mention private public health decisions, like playing sports. And let's face it, the shutdown probably couldn't have happened if Americans didn't see dead bodies being stacked like cordwood in New York, Italy, Spain, and New Orleans. Left to our own "freedoms" and devices, COVID is definitely capable of a nightmare scenario. When thousands are dying or in ICU and healthcare is overwhelmed, the economy tanks, too. Countries whose governments handled this much better than the U.S. will emerge to do free enterprise business and play sports sooner than we will. I think we forget this is going on in virtually every country in the world. The temptation is to make this an American ideological battle, but governments as diverse as Japan, France, Iran, India, South Korea, Belgium, Germany, etc, all recognized the coronavirus as an unprecedented threat and virtually every country enacted governmental restrictions -- some far more strict than the U.S. They did not doubt the science then, and nothing has happened to suggest the scientists were inherently wrong --- merely that there's still a lot to learn. There's a ton of leeway in how each of us assesses our risk factor, and I don't know anyone who doesn't want to get their freedoms back and the economy on track. People who stay home as much as possible and wear masks everywhere in public aren't being submissive to the government, they're listening to the experts and exercising their own abundance of caution. People who pointedly refuse to wear masks in public and refuse to social distance on principle aren't fighting for personal freedom, they're just being dicks. Most of us are somewhere in between. If we have to choose between the America that sacrifices together for the common good, or the America that lets public health be determined by our fearless individualists, I'm probably going to go with the former.

So it doesn't include providing protections for society in emergency events?

Dear FBI...there are probably other things you can now go investigate.

What does "promote the general welfare" mean to you?

Who's cutting onions in here?

This seemed like the appropriate place to park this inspiring tweet And a followup interview wt a message - to listen.

The hell.... Never underestimate the stupidity people will stoop to in order to try to do right. A county with 46,000 people, of whom 90% are White, decided to exempt people of color from their mask policy. I'm the goob. That'll teach me to google first.

No it doesn't. The POINT is that the fact that Nebraska hasn't won a championship since 97 is as irrelevant to Nebraska recruiting well as it is to those other programs. They recruit better than us now because they've been good. But they are good now because even when they were bad they put in the resources to keep investing in the players to be able to recruit well enough till they got a better coach who could win games and turn that into great recruiting. Nebraska has done the same. Nebraska recruits well despite being awful BECAUSE the program invests in the players and programs that invest in players is where players want to play. Mike Riley's awful evaluation work aside, We still out-recruit everyone in our division and most of the other one. If this staff can COACH they will win games and the talent will go back up where those schools I mentioned above are because the infrastructure and support is still there. If they can't we'll move on to someone else who hopefully can. In the meantime we will still land top 25-30 classes because the program is set up to do so. - every coach since Osborne retired has done it more often than not and none of them were particularly great coaches. Win games and those top 25 classes become top 15 classes. Win more and they become top 10 classes.

It's true. I'm not sure what they are thinking in Lincoln County, but they excluded some from wearing masks due to race. They've now reversed it, but it did happen.

This is why, once Democrats get back into power (hopefully) this Fall, we'll be all over them like white on rice. The lesser of two evils can still harbor plenty of evil. It's our job (the voters) to be vigilant about these gobs.

And herein lies the problem.

Mortality in the U.S. noticeably increased during the first months of 2020 compared to previous years There's some very good graphs and information in this. It clearly went up during the pandemic.

you were attempting to minimize the threat. another conclusion might be that this anecdote could mean that way more people have gotten it and not shown symptoms (or had it and have antibodies), thus drastically decreasing the perceived severity of the illness.

Great oped by Peggy Noonan. The beginning is copied below. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-week-it-went-south-for-trump-11593127733 The Week It Went South for Trump He hasn’t been equal to the crises. He never makes anything better. And everyone kind of knows.