Guy Chamberlin Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 hours ago, TheSker said: I agree about the upward flow of money. I'd call that consumer to producer. I wouldn't call that "forced" I agree that how the US has spent resources is insane. Then, AFTER I agreed, suddenly such words as "mirage" appear asking for my agreement. Um. No. "Forced" was the word I used when you said their was nothing to disagree with here. Meaning you also didn't disagree that the middle and working class had taken a hit from 30 years of supply side economics, supposedly designed to lift all ships at sea. So "mirage" isn't exactly a bait and switch. It's pretty well documented. Whatever. The upward flow of money isn't simply the result of consumers rewarding producers, it can also be the result of monopolistic tendencies that thwart the spirit of competition that free enterprise supposedly holds dear. Sometimes we forget that the "producers" also agitate for government intervention, including copyright protection, tariffs, huge amounts of corporate welfare, tax exemptions, and de-regulation. Because the people who have money can purchase more government, the upward spiral can spin out of control. The conservative think-tank movement has successfully convinced hard-working Americans that billionaires are being victimized, and colored socialists want to turn us into Venezuela. I respectfully disagree. 1 Link to comment
TheSker Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said: "Forced" was the word I used when you said their was nothing to disagree with here. Meaning you also didn't disagree that the middle and working class had taken a hit from 30 years of supply side economics, supposedly designed to lift all ships at sea. So "mirage" isn't exactly a bait and switch. It's pretty well documented. Whatever. The upward flow of money isn't simply the result of consumers rewarding producers, it can also be the result of monopolistic tendencies that thwart the spirit of competition that free enterprise supposedly holds dear. Sometimes we forget that the "producers" also agitate for government intervention, including copyright protection, tariffs, huge amounts of corporate welfare, tax exemptions, and de-regulation. Because the people who have money can purchase more government, the upward spiral can spin out of control. The conservative think-tank movement has successfully convinced hard-working Americans that billionaires are being victimized, and colored socialists want to turn us into Venezuela. I respectfully disagree. The points you are making are fair points, no question. Where we likely differ is I am ok with the efforts of businesses in the United States to push (or agitate) for their interests because of goods being "cheaper to produce" in other countries. If these other countries have less regulation, cheaper labor and other competitive advantages, why wouldn't we be ok with American businesses lobbying their own government to help stay competitive? I mean we all want good wages in the US, but does it bother us that other countries are ok with cheap labor? ......and our consumer driven society buys it by the shipload?..... 1 Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, TheSker said: The points you are making are fair points, no question. Where we likely differ is I am ok with the efforts of businesses in the United States to push (or agitate) for their interests because of goods being "cheaper to produce" in other countries. If these other countries have less regulation, cheaper labor and other competitive advantages, why wouldn't we be ok with American businesses lobbying their own government to help stay competitive? I mean we all want good wages in the US, but does it bother us that other countries are ok with cheap labor? ......and our consumer driven society buys it by the shipload?..... I guess the question is whether we think child labor, unchecked pollution and unsafe products are a reasonable price to pay for a) lower consumer prices b) higher producer profits Standard of living isn't tied entirely to money, and even then, some of the sacrifices we make to keep producers happy carry a long-term price tag that consumers will foot. Link to comment
TheSker Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: I guess the question is whether we think child labor, unchecked pollution and unsafe products are a reasonable price to pay for a) lower consumer prices b) higher producer profits Standard of living isn't tied entirely to money, and even then, some of the sacrifices we make to keep producers happy carry a long-term price tag that consumers will foot. I understand your view. Absolutely. I think your lens of corporate America is probably more skeptical than mine. And that's ok. 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 8 hours ago, TheSker said: I understand your view. Absolutely. I think your lens of corporate America is probably more skeptical than mine. And that's ok. Kudos for probably the most mature post in P&R forum. Maybe the whole board. 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said: I'd like to think this isn't because Republicans outright support racism and moreso because they're intensely loyal to their team and will not give up on it or their guy no matter what. The sad truth is it's a bit of column A, a bit of column B. I just wonder how much of each. Link to comment
Ratt Mhule Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 You guys are never going to believe which party said they would 100% pass the 9/11 fund and then blocked it today... I wonder what they will attempt to cut. Military spending? No, we need to fund endless war and more bombs. Make the tax cuts go away? No, gotta help our donors. Social security? Medicare? Medicaid? Yeah f#&% the people, lets cuts those. 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said: I'd like to think this isn't because Republicans outright support racism and moreso because they're intensely loyal to their team and will not give up on it or their guy no matter what. The sad truth is it's a bit of column A, a bit of column B. I just wonder how much of each. Sometimes you either change teams or fire the coach Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Frott Scost said: You guys are never going to believe which party said they would 100% pass the 9/11 fund and then blocked it today... I wonder what they will attempt to cut. Military spending? No, we need to fund endless war and more bombs. Make the tax cuts go away? No, gotta help our donors. Social security? Medicare? Medicaid? Yeah f#&% the people, lets cuts those. Paul can go f#&% himself. Of all the bills you choose to take a stand on for "budgetary concerns" you pick this one? This should ruin his career. In a just world this is political suicide and you never recover from it. 1 Link to comment
commando Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Frott Scost said: You guys are never going to believe which party said they would 100% pass the 9/11 fund and then blocked it today... I wonder what they will attempt to cut. Military spending? No, we need to fund endless war and more bombs. Make the tax cuts go away? No, gotta help our donors. Social security? Medicare? Medicaid? Yeah f#&% the people, lets cuts those. but they did vote to cut taxes and cost the united states $1 trillion Link to comment
funhusker Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Stolen from FAcebook comment section: I'd like to see the Venn diagram of people telling Americans to leave if they're not happy and people telling immigrants to stay in their own countries and fix their problems. 1 Link to comment
Cdog923 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I was directed this way to say that "Paul Rand is a piece of s#!t". 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, Cdog923 said: I was directed this way to say that "Paul Rand is a piece of s#!t". Haha, sucker. Just kidding. 1 Link to comment
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