Triaging the QB room

[BigRedBuster]

There has been a lot of talk about should Sims get a shot again. I think that would be a horrible thing for Rhule to do.  Sims lost two games by playing bad. Then he got injured and HH has been winning. (Not playing well, but winning). The team is playing hard around him. 
 

Playing Sims risks causing a split in the locker room. 
 

Now, if HH gets injured or completely falls apart in a game, then Sims can have a shot again.  Until then, it’s the HH show. 

[DefenderAO]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Actually, no.  Watch the long pass to Coleman. He steps into it and it’s not side arm. It’s the shorter passes that he does it on because it looks to me like he thinks he needs to guide it in. 
 

His motion on the long passes actually gives me hope that the shorter passes can be coached to be better. 

That's the rare time he does not...on deep throws.  Most everything else is sidearm.  It's not a hidden fact; it's constant.

 

Happy for Malachi on that play.  We'll need more of it.

[DefenderAO]

22 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

There has been a lot of talk about should Sims get a shot again. I think that would be a horrible thing for Rhule to do.  Sims lost two games by playing bad. Then he got injured and HH has been winning. (Not playing well, but winning). The team is playing hard around him. 
 

Playing Sims risks causing a split in the locker room. 
 

Now, if HH gets injured or completely falls apart in a game, then Sims can have a shot again.  Until then, it’s the HH show. 

Agree.  Imagine the meltdown if we go back to Sims and lose.  

 

We'll need something much better than anything we've shown this year at QB.  Until then, it needs to be HH.

[LumberJackSker]

Stick with haarberg this season, then send him to who ever worked with Taylor Martinez to make him a serviceable passer while also bringing in a transfer qb and let them battle in the spring and fall camp.

[Toe]

9 hours ago, ndobney said:

He’s not to be fair

 

Over two starts, Sims averaged two INTs and one fumble per game. And as it happens, Haarberg had exactly two INTs and one fumble just yesterday.

[Enhance]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

There has been a lot of talk about should Sims get a shot again. I think that would be a horrible thing for Rhule to do.  Sims lost two games by playing bad. Then he got injured and HH has been winning. (Not playing well, but winning). The team is playing hard around him. 
 

Playing Sims risks causing a split in the locker room. 
 

Now, if HH gets injured or completely falls apart in a game, then Sims can have a shot again.  Until then, it’s the HH show. 

I agree, though perhaps for slightly different reasons. It's pretty clear to me that the entire team has shown an aptitude for winning with Haarberg at the helm. It isn't pretty, and the execution is too often nauseating, but it's resulting in wins.

It just feels like a pretty considerable risk to mess with the formula by re-injecting Sims, based on what we've seen and what we know. I don't think Sims should be condemned to some eternal dog house but the team he was a part of in week one and two isn't the team out there now. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet to this point that would make me think otherwise.

Not to mention the fact that the current offense is made up of so many hodge-podge parts that it's making Buffalo Bill's skin suit look like Bloomingdale's storefront display.

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, LumberJackSker said:

Stick with haarberg this season, then send him to who ever worked with Taylor Martinez to make him a serviceable passer while also bringing in a transfer qb and let them battle in the spring and fall camp.

 

 

I don't think this is what you're saying so I'm not saying this to you directly, but T-Mart was never as bad a passer as people made him out to be then or now. He was raw and swimming in the offense his freshman year, but he showed how high his ceiling was as a passer against Oklahoma State (not only were the numbers good but he looked really good slinging it around that day). Then the high ankle sprain, but then on top of that he was dealing with debilitating turf toe all his sophomore year (the infamous "How to Throw the Perfect Pass with Taylor Martinez" youtube video is from this year and the ugly nature of it is very related to the turf toe). 

 

His improvement in 2012 was mostly related to proper footwork (very little coaching on his arm mechanics) via his offseason qb guru and the first time he'd been in the same offensive system for more than a single season.

[MyBloodIsRed16]

5 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

I don't think this is what you're saying so I'm not saying this to you directly, but T-Mart was never as bad a passer as people made him out to be then or now. He was raw and swimming in the offense his freshman year, but he showed how high his ceiling was as a passer against Oklahoma State (not only were the numbers good but he looked really good slinging it around that day). Then the high ankle sprain, but then on top of that he was dealing with debilitating turf toe all his sophomore year (the infamous "How to Throw the Perfect Pass with Taylor Martinez" youtube video is from this year and the ugly nature of it is very related to the turf toe). 

 

His improvement in 2012 was mostly related to proper footwork (very little coaching on his arm mechanics) via his offseason qb guru and the first time he'd been in the same offensive system for more than a single season.

still one of the funniest videos I've watched.  

[caveman99]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:53 PM, PaulCrewe said:

Bingo.  It ain't changing.  Remember all the guru sessions all summer that changed T Martinez's throwing and then the bullets start flying in the fall and it was the same motion he always had.

Funny, I remember T-Magic coming back a significantly improved passer after working with Calhoun and in that 2012 season immediately after working with Calhoun he became B1G OPOY….

 

So. - 56%, 2089, 13 TDs, 8 INTs, 126.5 QBR

Jr. - 62%, 2871, 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 141.6 QBR

 

[ZRod]

5 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

I don't think this is what you're saying so I'm not saying this to you directly, but T-Mart was never as bad a passer as people made him out to be then or now. He was raw and swimming in the offense his freshman year, but he showed how high his ceiling was as a passer against Oklahoma State (not only were the numbers good but he looked really good slinging it around that day). Then the high ankle sprain, but then on top of that he was dealing with debilitating turf toe all his sophomore year (the infamous "How to Throw the Perfect Pass with Taylor Martinez" youtube video is from this year and the ugly nature of it is very related to the turf toe). 

 

His improvement in 2012 was mostly related to proper footwork (very little coaching on his arm mechanics) via his offseason qb guru and the first time he'd been in the same offensive system for more than a single season.

Taylor's throwing motion was serviceable for the college level. It looked goofy but it got the job done. I think HH is similar. He just needs reps and study time to learn to go through his progressions, as well as climbing/navigating the pocket better. A better O line wouldn't hurt either.

[DefenderAO]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:44 PM, Toe said:

 

Over two starts, Sims averaged two INTs and one fumble per game. And as it happens, Haarberg had exactly two INTs and one fumble just yesterday.

A win alleviates the blame on any individual, it seems.  HH is not a stellar QB by any stretch, but we're 4-1 with him.  It may just be he's the better locker room guy and leader where everyone's play is elevated with him at the helm.  

 

With a really good QB, and marginal defensive improvements, we make another leap in competing.  Then add a legitimate O Line and develop our WR and RB rooms more, we start really competing for meaningful trophies. 

[Mavric]

9 hours ago, Toe said:

Over two starts, Sims averaged two INTs and one fumble per game. And as it happens, Haarberg had exactly two INTs and one fumble just yesterday.

 

So we have to take what Sims averaged over all his starts and compare that to HH's worst game to make a point?

[deedsker]

3 hours ago, caveman99 said:

Funny, I remember T-Magic coming back a significantly improved passer after working with Calhoun and in that 2012 season immediately after working with Calhoun he became B1G OPOY….

 

So. - 56%, 2089, 13 TDs, 8 INTs, 126.5 QBR

Jr. - 62%, 2871, 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 141.6 QBR

 

Not only did his mechanics improve, his footwork and posture throwing improved dramatically. He went from sub average/poor passer freshman year to his senior year, a potentially pass first QB. It was a dramatic change.

[floridacorn]

17 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

There's a huge disconnect between drill work specifically tailored towards mechanical perfection and a game environment where your brain is having to process a million more things and your body resorts to what it wants to do most naturally.

 

What's interesting is that you can find early spring practice video of HH throwing in 2021 with Sean Callahan talking about how impressed the coaches were with his arm talent and he consistently has a higher/over the top release.  Similarly, there is video of HH in the 2021 spring game.  His release point was as it is now and he throws some passes in that game that look like they were thrown with his off hand.  I don't know if he has a mental block like Charles Barkley's golf swing or Verduzco taught him to throw like Dan Quessenberry on purpose, but it's odd.  

[Archy1221]

11 hours ago, Enhance said:

t just feels like a pretty considerable risk to mess with the formula by re-injecting Sims, based on what we've seen and what we know. I don't think Sims should be condemned to some eternal dog house but the team he was a part of in week one and two isn't the team out there now. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet to this point that would make me think otherwise.

I believe if HH follows up the NW game with another sub 150 yrd 2 turnover passing game then it warrants a Sims opportunity unless there is a silent redshirt deal already made with him.  
 

Either way, neither should be QB next year, so the focus shouldn’t be on development for either, just play which one can win the game that particular week.  Getting both snaps in game probably isn’t a bad thing at this point.