The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

 

It'd be interesting to see a Venn Diagram of the things Trump supporters and Sanders supporters have said about Biden because they use a lot of similar messaging.

 

Yet it wouldn't be surprising that Trump supporters and Sanders supporters see the same things in Biden that make him vulnerable to Trump's attack strategy. 

 

If you're wondering if disappointed Sanders fans will ever stop tweaking on Joe Biden: some probably won't. Most of the people who can't bring themselves to vote for Biden will likely be the people Sanders brought in from out of the cold in 2016; traditional non-voters or protest voters who weren't reliable Democratic voters to begin with. 

 

The overwhelming majority will vote for Biden. It still stings a bit at the moment, especially watching the light bulbs go off on issues like national health care, but give us some time. I can't promise the youth vote will fall in line with Joe. They're not really that youthful, either. The under 45 numbers are terrible for Biden at the moment. 

 

The burden still remains on Joe to inspire the party faithful, the discouraged Progressives, and the 50% of Americans who don't even vote. I think he can. Not being Trump will get him part of the way, but he needs a solid, digestible message on what the party believes in, and it needs to feel right for all the down ticket races as well. 

[TGHusker]

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Didn't know he was a SD native. He was generally considered a son of Minnesota, as was Eugene McCarthy.  I believe Humphrey's widow lived in Lincoln for awhile. As an HHH scholar you probably know he came up as a progressive firebrand, to the left of Roosevelt and a devout civil rights advocate back when that was much trickier politically. That was all squandered when he had to carry Lyndon Johnson's water, and even free to run on his own in 68, 72, and while dying of cancer in 76, he was an establishment centrist associated with the stubborn support of the Vietnam war.

 

I've tried to explain 1968 to people who think this is the worst time ever in America. It's a horrible argument to win, and both arguments are probably right in their own way. The radical activists and middle class liberals had no trouble revolting against a Democrat president, because he'd earned their wrath. LBJ could never reconcile all the good he did with the Great Society, and all the evil he allowed in Vietnam. 

Yes, HHH was very progressive but he was a progressive out a inward motivation of faith.  He wasn't some wild eye socialist (not pointing to Bernie wt that comment - so calm down Bernie fans) but it was a true inward motivation of his.  I wish I had kept all of my research on him. He was truly one of those very likable, sincere, honest guys who unfortunately didn't fit correctly with history.  He was before his time and yet there wasn't enough time for him.  As a young man, I had tears of sorrow when I heard of his death.

He was one of the few politicians at the time I looked up to as a good role model. 

 

From Wiki:
 

Quote

 

Born in Wallace, South Dakota, Humphrey attended the University of Minnesota. At one point he helped run his father's pharmacy. He earned a master's degree from Louisiana State University and worked for the Works Progress Administration, the Minnesota war service program, and the War Manpower Commission. In 1943, he became a professor of political science at Macalester College and ran a failed campaign for mayor of Minneapolis. He helped found the Minnesota Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party (DFL) in 1944. In 1945, he won election as mayor of Minneapolis, serving until 1948 and co-founding the liberal anti-communist group Americans for Democratic Action in 1947. In 1948, he was elected to the U.S. Senate and successfully advocated for the inclusion of a proposal to end racial segregation in the 1948 Democratic National Convention's party platform.^[1]

Humphrey served three terms in the Senate from 1949 to 1964. He was the Senate Majority Whip from 1961 to 1964. During his tenure, he was the lead author of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, introduced the first initiative to create the Peace Corps, sponsored the clause of the McCarran Act that threatened concentration camps for "subversives", proposed making Communist Party membership a felony, and chaired the Select Committee on Disarmament. He unsuccessfully sought his party's presidential nomination in 1952 and 1960. After Lyndon B. Johnson acceded to the presidency, he chose Humphrey as his running mate, and the Democratic ticket was elected in the landslide 1964 election.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I asked this in the other thread, but I'll ask it here too.  What goes through your mind when you see the President you support totally melt under pressure and go on a lie filled rant blaming everyone but himself for the failures of his administration when he is asked a simple and appropriate question that is asked professionally?

So, @Notre Dame Joe do you have an answer to this?

[Danny Bateman]

21 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

I dont think Biden realizes how easy it is to appeal to most progressives. We dont need every single Sanders policy Sanders supported. Lowering the age to 60 does nothing as Bernie supporters are younger age. Means tested student loans does nothing. It helps people like Danny who arent even Sanders supporters and doesnt help me at all because I went to a private school due to my degree not being offered by public schools. How bout just cancel 50% for everyone if you want to get involved with that policy instead of means tested crap? He can get tons of votes just by legalizing and taxing marijuana in all states through executive order on day 1. Legalizing marijuana is a no brainer in 2020 but thats not even on his platform. Its ridiculous. 

 

FYI Biden is calling for halving the income-based repayment percentage to 5% from 10% of your monthly income and wants to tweak the tax code so you don't get hammered with a huge tax bomb at the end of your repayment (currently you do because the government treats forgiven loans as income for that tax year). I am already planning on using IBR when I begin payments with a stable job and these changes would provide a huge deal of financial security for me. I know it's not what you want but maybe this can be of some use to you. I'd prefer blanket forgiveness across the board too but I've found that to be an extremely contentious policy and I get the arguments against it.

 

I totally agree on weed. Biden is a dinosaur on that issue. I know there would be a bit of blowback from social conservatives but I think it's a huge well of untapped votes just waiting for the taking. Hopefully people keep trying to convince him to embrace it because if he does it's one more thing that could contribute to a landslide.

[Landlord]

44 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

 

 

 

Pretty strategic and mostly empty words imo. Some not insignificant liberal urban millenials have figured out that Obama is a classic centrist game-playing politician, and not the hope and change revolutionary he branded himself as. 

 

I think the Dems are slightly over-estimating Obama's effectiveness to young people. I guess we'll see.

 

About fainted in my chair when Obama mentioned that the Republicans were willing to spend trillions on tax cuts for the wealthy though.

[TGHusker]

35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, @Notre Dame Joe do you have an answer to this?

There is no answer but  ....

[Ratt Mhule]

40 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

FYI Biden is calling for halving the income-based repayment percentage to 5% from 10% of your monthly income and wants to tweak the tax code so you don't get hammered with a huge tax bomb at the end of your repayment (currently you do because the government treats forgiven loans as income for that tax year). I am already planning on using IBR when I begin payments with a stable job and these changes would provide a huge deal of financial security for me. I know it's not what you want but maybe this can be of some use to you. I'd prefer blanket forgiveness across the board too but I've found that to be an extremely contentious policy and I get the arguments against it.

 

I totally agree on weed. Biden is a dinosaur on that issue. I know there would be a bit of blowback from social conservatives but I think it's a huge well of untapped votes just waiting for the taking. Hopefully people keep trying to convince him to embrace it because if he does it's one more thing that could contribute to a landslide.

I use the 10 year standard payback method. I have paid off three in full and cut my payments in half until I decided to get a masters degree this last year so now I will be back where I started before. IBR lets interest grow and makes  it a longer process to pay off. So no, that does not interest me. If Biden doesnt wanna tackle student loans at all I dont really care. Thats up to him. But a means tested way that does not benefit all students is dumb. I think his plan was anyone making $150,000 or less and went to a public school will have some sort of forgiveness. Well I went to a private undergraduate school because public schools dont offer degrees in radiologic technology so that policy doesnt help me one bit. 

[FrantzHardySwag]

26 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

And you can see the problem Biden has.  He will not be able to keep fundraising pace with Donald Trump.  He won't be able to out debate Donald Trump.  He doesn't have the youth vote.  His campaign lacks a social media presence because of a lack of excitement and youth so he's not going to encourage anyone who doesn't vote to actually come out to vote.

 

All this because he won't bend 1 or 2 policies to be more progressive in order to excite and unite people behind him.

 

He just seems to be a bad leader because he knows what he needs to do to appeal, excite, and empower people...and yet doesn't do it.

Yet he beat Bernie and is polling better than Trump - so obviously his campaign isn't a flaming disaster. I'll agree he has short falls, but the debate narrative is so wrong in my eyes. Trump can't even answer simple questions from the media without having a complete meltdown. He will score well with his base, but not beyond that.

[knapplc]

48 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

All this because he won't bend 1 or 2 policies to be more progressive in order to excite and unite people behind him.

 

This just isn't true at all.

 

 

Quote

 

Joe Biden Won The Primary. Now He's Trying To Win Over Progressive Groups

A day after Bernie Sanders dropped out of the presidential race, Joe Biden, now the presumptive Democratic nominee, made an overture to progressives.

 

On Thursday he rolled out two new policy proposals:

1. Lower the age of Medicare eligibility from 65 to 60.
2. Forgive student debt for low-income and middle-class families who attended public colleges and universities and some private institutions.

"Senator Sanders and his supporters can take pride in their work in laying the groundwork for these ideas, and I'm proud to adopt them as part of my campaign at this critical moment in responding to the coronavirus crisis," Biden said in a statement announcing his plans. And the day before, when Sanders suspended his campaign, Biden put out a 700-word statement praising the Vermont senator as a "powerful voice" whose movement "changed the dialogue in America."

 

Biden and Sanders appear to have a genuine affection for one another, something that wasn't the case with Sanders and Hillary Clinton in 2016. And Sanders insisted from the outset of his 2020 candidacy that he would do whatever was needed to assist the eventual Democratic nominee to defeat President Trump.

 

But the question has long been whether Sanders' most ardent progressive supporters, some of whom have been leery of Biden's record, will follow him.

 

"The Biden campaign really did the least outreach of any of the major front-runners to Sunrise Movement throughout the election cycle," said Evan Weber, one of the co-founders of the youth-led climate-focused organization.

 

The group endorsed Sanders during the primary. But a couple of weeks ago, as it became clear that the former vice president would likely be the nominee, Weber said Biden's campaign tried to restart the relationship.

 

 

 

 

 

Compromise is a two-way street. Progressives need to be willing to walk toward Biden as much as they want him to walk to them.

[RedDenver]

29 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Trump can't even answer simple questions from the media without having a complete meltdown. He will score well with his base, but not beyond that.

We heard that last election too. Except Trump hit Hillary on trade and her emails. He'll probably hit Biden on trade, difficulty speaking/remembering, and Hunter Biden (especially dealings with China). Some of that is probably going land outside of Trump's base, but it remains to be seen how effective it will be.

[RedDenver]

12 minutes ago, knapplc said:

This just isn't true at all.

 

Compromise is a two-way street. Progressives need to be willing to walk toward Biden as much as they want him to walk to them.

1) Hillary was promising lowering Medicare age to 55, so Biden is actually doing even less this time around. Plus the group Biden is struggling with most is under 45, so I'm not sure this moves the needle much.

2) Biden is offering something here, but it's another one of these overly complicated neoliberal policies with means testing and different payback rates. He'd be way better off doing something simple like straight 50% (or 25% or 75% or etc.) forgiveness without tax implications. He could maybe get some traction with progressives, but I don't think so.

 

Those are important issues to progressives, so I think Biden's at least in the ballpark.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

1) Hillary was promising lowering Medicare age to 55, so Biden is actually doing even less this time around. Plus the group Biden is struggling with most is under 45, so I'm not sure this moves the needle much.

2) Biden is offering something here, but it's another one of these overly complicated neoliberal policies with means testing and different payback rates. He'd be way better off doing something simple like straight 50% (or 25% or 75% or etc.) forgiveness without tax implications. He could maybe get some traction with progressives, but I don't think so.

 

Those are important issues to progressives, so I think Biden's at least in the ballpark.

 

What concessions are progressives willing to give in return? Where's the middle?

[QMany]

 

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, knapplc said:

What concessions are progressives willing to give in return? Where's the middle?

There's no "middle". Biden is trying to persuade progressives, who are on some continuum of being willing to be convinced.

[RedDenver]

I'm old enough to remember when Obama didn't do anything to help Biden in the primary