The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Danny Bateman]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Ridicule is another interesting way to try appealing to voters you might need in order to win.

 

I've been consistent that I won't belittle people for choosing to exercise their right to vote - or not.

 

That said, I'm allowed to have opinions. And some of these DSA and Students for Bernie groups choosing to announce an anti-endorsement doesn't impress me. I don't find the arguments for not voting for Biden persuasive and if an anti-endorsement is some type of negotiating strategy they're not negotiating from a position of strength.

[funhusker]

6 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

I'd call it more the pragmatic thing to do than the mature thing, but I agree. It's the right move to vote for Biden. That's what I'm doing.

 

It'll probably be right next time too.

 

And then, somewhere down the road of the future, I imagine we will all maturely insure our own destruction by maturely riding this inevitable momentum of this out of control snowball machine we're all powerless to dismantle or resist.

 

 

 

THIS is more the perspective of #NeverBiden voters or abstainers, I think. It's a nihilistic realization that there is nothing to be done in life but be held hostage by the system that serves the powerful, forever. It's people broken hearted and jaded enough to see the writing on the wall and just quit the game. 

 

We're not going to have a revolution. We're not going to meaningfully redistribute wealth. We're not going to reach a state of equitable

opportunity. We won't be able to make a dent in the calcified dominance heirarchy. So what the hell is the point?

 

Now you can call it wrong or pessimistic or immature or whatever, or paint it as simple-minded whiney brats not getting their way, but it's at least not an unreasonable perspective to have. 

 

I sympathize with these young adults, I really do.

 

But if they want to see change in the system, they need to be part of it.  I’m sorry it didn’t work out for them this year. But If they keep the positive energy and increase turnout, their efforts will be rewarded down the road.  A lot of us “older” folk are counting on their involvement.

 

People who sit out this election because Sanders didn’t win the nomination are absolutely being babies.

 

i voted Kasich in the 2016 primary.  He wasn’t on the ballot in the general.  You know what I did, I voted for the candidate most closely aligned with him which was Hillary.  I didn’t enjoy it, I wasn’t excited to do it, but damn it felt good to vote against Trump! (Twice)

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

You're voting for him if he turns out to be a rapist.  You're voting for him if he turns out to have dementia...neither of which, mind you, you have any business claiming are false because you're not in a position to do so any more than I'm in a position to claim they are true.

 

This argument is a bunch of crap. Knapp, myself and others have looked at the available evidence and decided based on what we know whether or not either of those things are plausible. What you are saying is evidence doesn't matter and that we can't judge the legitimacy of any accusations if there is no evidence proving them definitively true or false. It is not valid to say it is equally plausible that Biden both is and isn't either of those things. 

 

Quote

Bottom line is, you shouldn't be asking people to betray their integrity just because you think they need to in order to vote Trump out.  That's not on them...this is America...land of the FREE.  They can vote for whoever they want and shouldn't have you making them feel bad about being true to themselves and voting...hell write in Mickey Mouse if you want to...for someone they feel would do better than Biden or Trump.  That's how Democracy works and for anyone to suggest otherwise, is against it.

 

Disagree. In a democracy we should be able to lobby each other on how to vote because our voting affects us collectively as a society. 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

People get to vote for whoever they want.  Keep your opinions on their votes to yourself. 

 

 

Uh, what? Why are you here again?

[Notre Dame Joe]

6 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

And who did we ultimately end up with and how did that end up?

what?

 

5 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Sure you don't have to. But we need to know the stakes. If Trump gets another 4 years, there's an overwhelming chance that he gets at least one more Supreme Court seat, maybe two. That means, essentially, for the rest of our lives, there won't be such a thing as fair elections. For the next several decades the SC will rule in favor of out of control Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it directly, because those seats will stay no matter what, and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it indirectly, because Republicans will unfairly win more and more seats in Congress. 

 

The Supreme Court is the only reason I feel I absolutely must vote for Biden, and if he was a convicted rapist I would still absolutely vote for him as much as it disgusts me to say so. 

 

General elections are boring for the partisan policy voter.  There will always be a Supreme Court and every President nominates someone.  And please don't lecture us on "partisan gerrymandering" which the Ds use liberally when it suits them. 

[Ulty]

3 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Bottom line is, you shouldn't be asking people to betray their integrity just because you think they need to in order to vote Trump out. 

If someone refuses to participate in the general election, they are actually betraying the progressive principles and values that led them to be so passionate in supporting Bernie in the first place.

 

That’s not integrity.

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

And please don't lecture us on "partisan gerrymandering" which the Ds use liberally when it suits them. 

 

 

yeah, but who is doing it more and rigging it worse right now?

[BigRedBuster]

6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

what?

Well, we ended up with a Republican in office that got there by being a crook, was impeached and left office shame.

 

I think it's pretty clear that it probably would have been better if either of the Democrats would have won that election.

 

Kind of reminds me of now.

 

I asked this in the other thread, but I'll ask it here too.  What goes through your mind when you see the President you support totally melt under pressure and go on a lie filled rant blaming everyone but himself for the failures of his administration when he is asked a simple and appropriate question that is asked professionally?

 

 

[knapplc]

12 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

I'm not Knapp

 

Agreed. 

[teachercd]

My god, if this is what it is like with a small sample size just imagine what it is like for the rest of the Sanders v Biden crowd v Hate Trump crowd.

 

You guys can't even get it together here, in a fake land!

 

If you want Trump out, you have to vote for Mushy Mind Biden, period.  I get that you loved Sanders and all his "free stuff" ideas, but his party did him in (and will possibly also do in Weekend at Bernie's at the last second too) but this is not a hard math problem.  You want no more Trump, you vote for Biden (or whoever they actually let run once they send Joe out to pasture) 

 

I get the idea of integrity, but, integrity about what?

[knapplc]

Curious timing. I would have thought they'd do it later to seize headlines, but apparently it's today.

 

 

 

[teachercd]

Smart move to do it now . This is the kill shot.  Sanders Bro's will like this (I think, the normal ones anyway)

[Guy Chamberlin]

14 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

His name was Eugene McCarthy and he lost.  But he became a badge of left wing cred for years to come.  Probably thrice as many people talked about volunteering for him then actually did.  I think Bernie will have the same legacy.

 

McCarthy was the peace candidate in 1968, a year when that really meant something. When he entered the race and got the young people excited (he was gray haired himself) he was running against an incumbent Democrat, LBJ. McCarthy was the real deal for awhile, until Bobby Kennedy entered the race, taking the liberal youth with him and pulling in the Dems who revered his assassinated brother. Lyndon Johnson's nightmare was losing to a Kennedy, so he dropped out. RFK gets assassinated so the party turns to Vice President Hubert Humphrey, beloved by none and the opposite of change, but a safer bet for a nation freaked out by revolution in the streets. 

 

I've seen people try to compare Bernie Sanders chances to George McGovern in 1972, but 1968 has its lesson, too. Having the excitement of Mccarthy/Kennedy turn into Hubert Humphrey turn into Richard Nixon sound pretty familiar right now. 

[RedDenver]

9 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

I've been consistent that I won't belittle people for choosing to exercise their right to vote - or not.

 

That said, I'm allowed to have opinions. And some of these DSA and Students for Bernie groups choosing to announce an anti-endorsement doesn't impress me. I don't find the arguments for not voting for Biden persuasive and if an anti-endorsement is some type of negotiating strategy they're not negotiating from a position of strength.

Of course you can have opinions. But complaining about some group of voters not voting the way you want while simultaneously ridiculing them for it seems counter-productive if your goal is to get the most voters for your candidate.

 

The more I think about these groups deliberately not endorsing Biden, the more I realize it's strong politics. They aren't even claiming they won't vote for Biden, just making sure his campaign knows they aren't getting an endorsement. The only way to get Biden and his campaign to move closer to your position is to withhold your endorsement or vote. If they come out as Bernie and AOC have and say they're going to vote for the Dem nominee no matter what, then Biden can safely ignore them. But if Biden wants to win, then he has to consider how to best convince voters who are not already voting for him.

[Ulty]

16 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

only way Biden could get them is if he adopted almost every policy Sanders has

 

Come on, that's completely unrealistic for any politician. If someone is only going to vote if someone 100% shares the same values and ideas that you do, they are never going to vote at all.