Guy Chamberlin Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 12 hours ago, WyoHusker56 said: I've learned that our fans and their "eye tests" can't tell the difference between a QB looking good in garbage time against a team whose will is crushed and competitive games. I've also learned fans will be forever obsessed with back ups regardless of if they can actually play better than starters. Good points. But if it's my money or reputation, I'm going with McCaffery. 2 2 Quote Link to comment
WyoHusker56 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, BigPeterJ said: Ive learned that some of us , consider 5-6 with our best win being ILLINOIS as "our offense does well with him at QB" You realize that "garbage time" also includes our offense having in their second string, typically sooner than the defense. Im not even sure Maryland had their backups in when our backups first came in...which would make what Luke did even more impressive. More than anything, considering how many likes these posts got....i learned that many husker fans get very defensive any time our starting QB gets honest evaluation. So now that we beat a bad Maryland team who gifted us our 20+ point lead and whose "will was crushed" (which i agree with) , in a game where picks turned into touchdowns, all of a sudden Martinez is a good QB? Our defense played stout, our OL dominated, our RBs ran well, our team played very well, DESPITE the fact that our QB did not, but lets give AM the credit for this win. And lets pretend "our offense does well with him at QB" in a season where weve lost 6 games so far, and our wins consist of S.Alabama (despite our offense trying to give the game away), Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Illinois, and Maryland. Btw his stats are 10 TD and 8 INT, with the #69 QBRating. Also 8 fumbles. Take away that sure interception that turned into a TD, and he'd be 9 TD and 9 INT. That is a stat, has nothing to do with the eye test. But i would argue he is even worse than his stats, as that doesnt account for all the open receivers he rarely sees, or all the screen passes that are adjusted to just to catch, putting the runner in a bad position, etc etc. Sorry where in my post did I saw that because if the game yesterday Martinez is a good QB? He hasn't played as well this year, but you and others act like he should be benched next week and already has no chance next year to play. I'm just not convinced the QB who came in garbage time and went 3 of 5 with one of those being a trick play completion is so obviously better than AM. Oh by the way our worst offensive game this year was with AM on the bench. We generated 148 yards of passing offense in that game and let's not pretend Minnesota's defense is a juggernaut. He also led the team in rushing yesterday so don't tell me how he's not decisive running or whatever nonsense about his run game. In two games without AM I saw an offense that had the exact same defeciences as the one with AM. So I don't believe the struggles we've had are all on him. You're obviously not an AM fan and I am so we obviously aren't going to agree. One of us will be right in the future and we won't know until next year. 3 1 Quote Link to comment
Wunderkind Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Something has been up with AM all year, injury? Sophomore Slump? Poor line play? All the above? But I remember another Martinez with some of those same issues that had a poor Sophmore year followed by a great Junior campaign. It would be foolish to write AM off. McCaffrey is a good runner, but yet to see much out of the passing game. Just not much there to evaluate and there probably is a reason. However, I do hope there is more competition this Spring which raises all of their games. I think AM is probably the best at this point, we will see if anyone can surpass him. 3 3 Quote Link to comment
kozzman555 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Wunderkind said: Something has been up with AM all year, injury? Sophomore Slump? Poor line play? All the above? But I remember another Martinez with some of those same issues that had a poor Sophmore year followed by a great Junior campaign. It would be foolish to write AM off. McCaffrey is a good runner, but yet to see much out of the passing game. Just not much there to evaluate and there probably is a reason. However, I do hope there is more competition this Spring which raises all of their games. I think AM is probably the best at this point, we will see if anyone can surpass him. Agree with this 100%. I haven't been impressed with Luke's throwing. If he hits Spielman on the trick play instride, it's a TD. Instead we settle for a 20 yard gain. He had a terrible pass to the left to Hickman that didn't even make it to Hickman. The throw was late and just looked terrible all around. Does he look like a better and more decisive runner than Martinez? Ya for sure. But I am not sold on him being a better QB than Martinez, even with his down year this year. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
UniversalMartin Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Wunderkind said: Something has been up with AM all year, injury? Sophomore Slump? Poor line play? All the above? But I remember another Martinez with some of those same issues that had a poor Sophmore year followed by a great Junior campaign. It would be foolish to write AM off. McCaffrey is a good runner, but yet to see much out of the passing game. Just not much there to evaluate and there probably is a reason. However, I do hope there is more competition this Spring which raises all of their games. I think AM is probably the best at this point, we will see if anyone can surpass him. Agree with all of this. There is no body of legit comparable evidence to suggest that McCaffery is above Martinez...with that said, I am not saying AM is the right choice moving forward, he is just the obvious choice right now 1 Quote Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Wunderkind said: Something has been up with AM all year, injury? Sophomore Slump? Poor line play? All the above? But I remember another Martinez with some of those same issues that had a poor Sophmore year followed by a great Junior campaign. It would be foolish to write AM off. McCaffrey is a good runner, but yet to see much out of the passing game. Just not much there to evaluate and there probably is a reason. However, I do hope there is more competition this Spring which raises all of their games. I think AM is probably the best at this point, we will see if anyone can surpass him. People forget how good Taylor was as a passer his junior season. If Adrian made a similar jump that would do alot for our offense which is finding its groove right now 2 Quote Link to comment
Landlord Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 14 hours ago, twofittyonred said: The "comparison" comes into play when martinez and mccaffrey are rated against the same variable. A starting defense competing in a game it's still possible to win and a second string defense trying to slow the bleeding aren't the same variable. 47 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: People forget how good Taylor was as a passer his junior season. If Adrian made a similar jump that would do alot for our offense which is finding its groove right now Adrian is already a better passer than Taylor was in his best season. That's what's wild - truthfully he's gotta be at worst the third best passer we've had in the last 40 years and some small insane contingent of online husker fan savants act personally upset with the kid that he's not riding the pine pony indefinitely. Here's how 'bad' Martinez played Saturday, in order of plays where he passed or ran: 1 - perfectly placed bubble on the numbers, but loss of 4 due to Stoll whiffing on his block. 2 - perfectly placed underneath to Mills for 8 3 - QB draw diving on 3rd for 6 and a first 4 - perfect swing pass to Mills for 11 5 - incomplete, deflected by a defender right in his face (tried to side arm it around him but still got knocked down) 6 - incomplete screen pass to Mills, threw it behind him (but still catchable) 7 - 3rd and 10, escapes pressure and runs for 7 (unable to tell if anyone was open downfield) 8 - bad snap, corralls and throws perfect throw out to Johnson for 12 9 - 3rd and 5, incomplete to Spielman on a slant. threw out it out in front of his body but from the broadcast cam it looks like any further back and the defender would have batted it. Spielman got both hands on it, but no catch 10 - checks down to spielman in the flat as his third read, gain of zero 11 - cool, weird little misdirection corner fade thing to wide open Allen in stride (pass a little high) for 20 some yards 12 - 2nd and goal run to the 1 13 - 3rd and goal qb sneak touchdown 14 - qb draw for 1 15 - another screen attempt batted down by defender right in his face 16 - bad swing throw to johnson too far in front of him and leading him into a defender 17 - quick outside dump to stoll for 6 18 - 22 yard pass to spielman in a soft spot of the zone 19 - bad dump in the flats on an rpo (he made the right read, but there was a delayed corner blitz that forced him into a bad throw) incomplete to stoll 20 - sacked for -1 yard, had two guys open for short dumps 21 - bad decision but double tip leads to spielman touchdown 22 - cuts an option keeper upfield for 21 yards (fumbles as he's going out of bounds) 23 - underthrows a throwback to stoll in the end zone, intercepted 24 - checks down through three reads to kade warner for gain of 3 (cant see whats going on downfield) 25 - incomplete to johnson crossing underneath on 3rd down (right through johnson's hands 26 - designed run for 16 yards 27 - roll out left off the wrong foot perfect pass placement in stride to spielman for a touchdown 28 - 25 yard pass to mike williams finding another zone soft spooot 29 - play action left rollout pass (good accuracy) complete to chris hickman who slips for no gain 30 - good read option pitch to johnson for 4 31 - pa bubble to spielman for 15 (again, ball exactly where it should be to give receiver an easy catch and good momentum/stride) 32 - 32 yard zone read keep run 33 - 12 yard completed pass i dont know who to 34 - bad double coverage throw into the endzone for spielman, lucky not to get picked 35 - 10 yard pass to mcaffrey on 3rd and 7 36 - 13 yard zone read keep to the outside 37 - option pitch to johnson for 14 yards to the 1 yard line 5 2 Quote Link to comment
Aliens05 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion after reading several posts voicing the opposite opinion....but I am in the camp that thinks that Martinez does NOT give us the best chance to win. You can't look at the Maryland game and say he put up a certain number of yards. He in all reality should have had about 3-4 MORE turnovers, we got absolutely BAILED out that those turnovers didn't happen. The thing is, he has done this in about every single game this year. I think (IF HEALTHY) that actually Vedral gives us the best chance to win. It would be something similar to what Iowa does, steady play, nothing crazy, but mistake free. Martinez is the polar opposite of mistake free, at least this year... I don't know about playing Mcaffrey for the majority of the game against Iowa though either. He has played great, but mostly on runs, and Iowa I feel would kill him, the kid is small and skinny, but a good player. I just don't think Martinez has it this year. Now maybe I am wrong (this game) and Martinez comes out and just plays amazing against Iowa. That would be more than welcome, and I will eat my words if he does. I HOPE he does, but based on what Ive seen this year I am not confident. 1 Quote Link to comment
KingBlank Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Landlord said: A starting defense competing in a game it's still possible to win and a second string defense trying to slow the bleeding aren't the same variable. Adrian is already a better passer than Taylor was in his best season. That's what's wild - truthfully he's gotta be at worst the third best passer we've had in the last 40 years and some small insane contingent of online husker fan savants act personally upset with the kid that he's not riding the pine pony indefinitely. Here's how 'bad' Martinez played Saturday, in order of plays where he passed or ran: 1 - perfectly placed bubble on the numbers, but loss of 4 due to Stoll whiffing on his block. 2 - perfectly placed underneath to Mills for 8 3 - QB draw diving on 3rd for 6 and a first 4 - perfect swing pass to Mills for 11 5 - incomplete, deflected by a defender right in his face (tried to side arm it around him but still got knocked down) 6 - incomplete screen pass to Mills, threw it behind him (but still catchable) 7 - 3rd and 10, escapes pressure and runs for 7 (unable to tell if anyone was open downfield) 8 - bad snap, corralls and throws perfect throw out to Johnson for 12 9 - 3rd and 5, incomplete to Spielman on a slant. threw out it out in front of his body but from the broadcast cam it looks like any further back and the defender would have batted it. Spielman got both hands on it, but no catch 10 - checks down to spielman in the flat as his third read, gain of zero 11 - cool, weird little misdirection corner fade thing to wide open Allen in stride (pass a little high) for 20 some yards 12 - 2nd and goal run to the 1 13 - 3rd and goal qb sneak touchdown 14 - qb draw for 1 15 - another screen attempt batted down by defender right in his face 16 - bad swing throw to johnson too far in front of him and leading him into a defender 17 - quick outside dump to stoll for 6 18 - 22 yard pass to spielman in a soft spot of the zone 19 - bad dump in the flats on an rpo (he made the right read, but there was a delayed corner blitz that forced him into a bad throw) incomplete to stoll 20 - sacked for -1 yard, had two guys open for short dumps 21 - bad decision but double tip leads to spielman touchdown 22 - cuts an option keeper upfield for 21 yards (fumbles as he's going out of bounds) 23 - underthrows a throwback to stoll in the end zone, intercepted 24 - checks down through three reads to kade warner for gain of 3 (cant see whats going on downfield) 25 - incomplete to johnson crossing underneath on 3rd down (right through johnson's hands 26 - designed run for 16 yards 27 - roll out left off the wrong foot perfect pass placement in stride to spielman for a touchdown 28 - 25 yard pass to mike williams finding another zone soft spooot 29 - play action left rollout pass (good accuracy) complete to chris hickman who slips for no gain 30 - good read option pitch to johnson for 4 31 - pa bubble to spielman for 15 (again, ball exactly where it should be to give receiver an easy catch and good momentum/stride) 32 - 32 yard zone read keep run 33 - 12 yard completed pass i dont know who to 34 - bad double coverage throw into the endzone for spielman, lucky not to get picked 35 - 10 yard pass to mcaffrey on 3rd and 7 36 - 13 yard zone read keep to the outside 37 - option pitch to johnson for 14 yards to the 1 yard line That isn't true Quote Link to comment
Igetbored216 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Adrian hasn't had a very good year Quote Link to comment
HuskerPwr Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 For those who think Martinez doesn’t have “it” and isn’t the QB for us in the future... What did you think of him in 2018? Did you think he had “it”? If yes, then do you think he really just lost “it”? There have been a number of issues with the team this year and I think Martinez developed some not-so-great habits because of that. I’m hopeful he can make a jump next year. I also wouldn’t be surprised to learn that he has been playing injured (shoulder) once the season’s over. Quote Link to comment
hskrfan4life Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, Aliens05 said: He in all reality should have had about 3-4 MORE turnovers But he didn't. Man we love to play this game especially when we win. 1 Quote Link to comment
twofittyonred Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Landlord said: A starting defense competing in a game it's still possible to win and a second string defense trying to slow the bleeding aren't the same variable. Marylands second string defense was in when McCaffrey was playing..?? Quote Link to comment
HuskerPwr Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, hskrfan4life said: But he didn't. Man we love to play this game especially when we win 54 minutes ago, Aliens05 said: I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion after reading several posts voicing the opposite opinion....but I am in the camp that thinks that Martinez does NOT give us the best chance to win. You can't look at the Maryland game and say he put up a certain number of yards. He in all reality should have had about 3-4 MORE turnovers, we got absolutely BAILED out that those turnovers didn't happen. The thing is, he has done this in about every single game this year. I think (IF HEALTHY) that actually Vedral gives us the best chance to win. It would be something similar to what Iowa does, steady play, nothing crazy, but mistake free. Martinez is the polar opposite of mistake free, at least this year... I don't know about playing Mcaffrey for the majority of the game against Iowa though either. He has played great, but mostly on runs, and Iowa I feel would kill him, the kid is small and skinny, but a good player. I just don't think Martinez has it this year. Now maybe I am wrong (this game) and Martinez comes out and just plays amazing against Iowa. That would be more than welcome, and I will eat my words if he does. I HOPE he does, but based on what Ive seen this year I am not confident. Maybe Martinez was taking more risks because he knew he could against a Maryland defense that had given up? He played a pretty clean game against Wisconsin, right? Quote Link to comment
hskrfan4life Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Adrian Martinez Taylor Martinez So it's very realistic to expect a jump for Adrian in his junior year as well. 1 Quote Link to comment
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