What did we learn Michigan Game

[LennynSquiggy]

11 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

 

Statistical proof we are better than last year in at least these areas. 

[Mavric]

 

[TGHusker]

Learned:  They cheat

 

Now wouldn't it be great if the NCAA forces UM to vacate its win against Nebraska - and it puts us into a bowl game.   But the NCAA never moves that fast. 

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html

 

The NCAA is investigating the Michigan football program for allegedly violating rules that prohibit teams from scouting, in person, future opponents, industry sources told Yahoo Sports.

The allegation pertains to NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which reads: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited,” sources say.

 

The Big Ten Conference received notification from the NCAA that the organization is conducting an investigation into the Wolverines, a league spokesperson said. The spokesperson declined to confirm any more details.

"Late Wednesday afternoon, the Big Ten Conference and University of Michigan were notified by the NCAA that the NCAA was investigating allegations of sign stealing by the University of Michigan football program," the Big Ten said in a subsequent statement released Thursday. "The Big Ten Conference has notified Michigan State University and future opponents. The Big Ten Conference considers the integrity of competition to be of utmost importance and will continue to monitor the investigation. The Conference will have no further comment at this time."

Teams are normally provided extensive video footage to scout opponents. At issue, according to sources, is whether Michigan used unnamed individuals to attend games of both scheduled opponents and possible College Football Playoff opponents in an effort to gather information on the signs they use to call both offensive and defensive plays.

Sign stealing is not technically prohibited and has a long and colorful history as part of the game. Scouting opponents in person has been prohibited since 1994. Whether the NCAA believes Michigan was using staffers or others who may be loyal to the program is unknown. So, too, is whether information was detailed via video or some other means or if head coach Jim Harbaugh is involved.

Michigan is 6-0 and ranked No. 2 in the country heading into a rivalry game Saturday at Michigan State. The Spartans staff was notified of the situation earlier this week.

Two of Michigan's opponents this season told Yahoo Sports they became aware that Michigan knew their play signs. Sign stealing does not violate NCAA rules unless the team uses in-game, electronic equipment to relay the information to players on the field or amongst coaches. The 2023 NCAA football rule book addresses sign stealing in a general way under a section titled Prohibited Field Equipment. It states that “any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.” No corresponding penalty is listed.

The rule book does express the need for coaches to follow the so-called “Football Code” and states that “only the highest standards of sportsmanship and conduct are expected of players, coaches and others associated with the game.” It further lists numerous examples of unethical and unsportsmanlike conduct but sign stealing is not among them.

Regardless, the extent of this operation apparently concerned the NCAA. In-person scouting was prohibited for almost all circumstances in 1994 as a cost-saving tool. Teams commonly use hand signals or visual pictures on signs held aloft on the sideline to tell the quarterback or defensive captain the play.

Stealing those signs has been a gray area in the past and teams routinely switch up their signals to guard against it.

Among college coaches, Clemson is believed to have been particularly adept at it in the past. Much of the speculation fell to former defensive coordinator Brent Venables, now the head coach at Oklahoma. At the 2021 Sugar Bowl, Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields said he huddled to call plays more often in an effort to prevent Clemson from stealing signs. Other teams have used curtains, hard-to-read colors and other methods to try to disguise play calls.

Michigan is already under NCAA investigation for a series of Level II rule violations that include Harbaugh meeting with recruits during a COVID dead period, using too many coaches in practice and watching player workouts on Zoom. The school suspended Harbaugh for the first three games of the season after a negotiated resolution between the school and the NCAA for a four-game suspension collapsed. The case is expected to be heard after the 2023 season.

[Hilltop]

11 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Learned:  They cheat

 

Now wouldn't it be great if the NCAA forces UM to vacate its win against Nebraska - and it puts us into a bowl game.   But the NCAA never moves that fast. 

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html

 

The NCAA is investigating the Michigan football program for allegedly violating rules that prohibit teams from scouting, in person, future opponents, ....

 

I don't think the majority of our fan base, or our coaches/team, want us to get into a bowl game due to a vacated win.  

 

All teams steal signs.  The majority of teams use in person scouts.  Hell, they even do that around here for class C high school.  

[Cdog923]

12 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

 

I don't think the majority of our fan base, or our coaches/team, want us to get into a bowl game due to a vacated win.  

 

All teams steal signs.  The majority of teams use in person scouts.  Hell, they even do that around here for class C high school.  

 

In-person scouts are one thing, but this might depend on how Michigan is stealing signs; if they are intercepting in-game communications, then it's illegal.

 

Also, I could care less how we get there: just get to a bowl. 

[skers83]

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

 

I don't think the majority of our fan base, or our coaches/team, want us to get into a bowl game due to a vacated win.  

 

All teams steal signs.  The majority of teams use in person scouts.  Hell, they even do that around here for class C high school.  

Of course,, everyone would love to get to a bowl game by winning 10-11 games...heck...how about 13 and getting to the playoffs?  But, right now we just need to get there and get the extra practices and exposure.

[Red Five]

20 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I don't think the majority of our fan base, or our coaches/team, want us to get into a bowl game due to a vacated win. 

 

If the win is "vacated", that just means Michigan doesn't get credit for a win according to NCAA records.  It is still a loss for us.

 

And there is no way that any of this is adjudicated in the next 6 weeks before the CFP stuff is finalized.

[MyBloodIsRed16]

Illinois is stupid.  They tried to mimic our cadence to get guys to false start.  They could have stole call signs and beat us 50-7. 

[DefenderAO]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Learned:  They cheat

 

Now wouldn't it be great if the NCAA forces UM to vacate its win against Nebraska - and it puts us into a bowl game.   But the NCAA never moves that fast. 

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html

 

The NCAA is investigating the Michigan football program for allegedly violating rules that prohibit teams from scouting, in person, future opponents, industry sources told Yahoo Sports.

The allegation pertains to NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which reads: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited,” sources say.

 

The Big Ten Conference received notification from the NCAA that the organization is conducting an investigation into the Wolverines, a league spokesperson said. The spokesperson declined to confirm any more details.

"Late Wednesday afternoon, the Big Ten Conference and University of Michigan were notified by the NCAA that the NCAA was investigating allegations of sign stealing by the University of Michigan football program," the Big Ten said in a subsequent statement released Thursday. "The Big Ten Conference has notified Michigan State University and future opponents. The Big Ten Conference considers the integrity of competition to be of utmost importance and will continue to monitor the investigation. The Conference will have no further comment at this time."

Teams are normally provided extensive video footage to scout opponents. At issue, according to sources, is whether Michigan used unnamed individuals to attend games of both scheduled opponents and possible College Football Playoff opponents in an effort to gather information on the signs they use to call both offensive and defensive plays.

Sign stealing is not technically prohibited and has a long and colorful history as part of the game. Scouting opponents in person has been prohibited since 1994. Whether the NCAA believes Michigan was using staffers or others who may be loyal to the program is unknown. So, too, is whether information was detailed via video or some other means or if head coach Jim Harbaugh is involved.

Michigan is 6-0 and ranked No. 2 in the country heading into a rivalry game Saturday at Michigan State. The Spartans staff was notified of the situation earlier this week.

Two of Michigan's opponents this season told Yahoo Sports they became aware that Michigan knew their play signs. Sign stealing does not violate NCAA rules unless the team uses in-game, electronic equipment to relay the information to players on the field or amongst coaches. The 2023 NCAA football rule book addresses sign stealing in a general way under a section titled Prohibited Field Equipment. It states that “any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.” No corresponding penalty is listed.

The rule book does express the need for coaches to follow the so-called “Football Code” and states that “only the highest standards of sportsmanship and conduct are expected of players, coaches and others associated with the game.” It further lists numerous examples of unethical and unsportsmanlike conduct but sign stealing is not among them.

Regardless, the extent of this operation apparently concerned the NCAA. In-person scouting was prohibited for almost all circumstances in 1994 as a cost-saving tool. Teams commonly use hand signals or visual pictures on signs held aloft on the sideline to tell the quarterback or defensive captain the play.

Stealing those signs has been a gray area in the past and teams routinely switch up their signals to guard against it.

Among college coaches, Clemson is believed to have been particularly adept at it in the past. Much of the speculation fell to former defensive coordinator Brent Venables, now the head coach at Oklahoma. At the 2021 Sugar Bowl, Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields said he huddled to call plays more often in an effort to prevent Clemson from stealing signs. Other teams have used curtains, hard-to-read colors and other methods to try to disguise play calls.

Michigan is already under NCAA investigation for a series of Level II rule violations that include Harbaugh meeting with recruits during a COVID dead period, using too many coaches in practice and watching player workouts on Zoom. The school suspended Harbaugh for the first three games of the season after a negotiated resolution between the school and the NCAA for a four-game suspension collapsed. The case is expected to be heard after the 2023 season.

 

We'll still have three losses.  Let's just keep it there.

[funhusker]

Even if pigs start flying and Michigan's wins are vacated, that doesn't mean their opponents are credited with a win.  It's still counted as a loss.

[Red Five]

Also, there is 0 reason why CFB teams don't have radio communication in their helmets.

 

The NFL started using coach/QB comms in 1994!!!

[knapplc]

Schiano knew.

 

 

[Red Five]

 

[runningblind]

First of all, we have video of every game ever for scouting.  Second, why on earth would this be a penalty? What a dumb rule.