What is the future of the Republican Party?

[commando]

it seems like this guy is what the republicans want the future of the party to be

 

[BigRedBuster]

28 minutes ago, commando said:

it seems like this guy is what the republicans want the future of the party to be

 

 

The mostest bigliest felonist president the world has ever seen.

[TGHusker]

16 hours ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

Say, I wonder if Trump will pay the legal fees of the 'Trump 16"?   .......

 

The answer is obvious, Captain.   Trump knows they are all his stooges just like the rioters on J6 were his willing stooges.   He doesn't care a flip about either one or the thousands of people he's conned into donating to his legal defense fund.   

[ZRod]

44 minutes ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

Nothing screams American Patriots like big red mittens with "CANADA" written across the top and a big fat maple leaf.

[TGHusker]

17 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I think the problem is that your third party vote makes the two equivalent and is why Biden is likely to lose if No Labels becomes a thing.

 

"Sure, Trump is a lying authoritarian who's undermined American Democracy, he's hypnotized a base of morons who don't live in reality and is an extremely dangerous person to have in charge.

 

But Joe Biden is old and the vibes are bad. You know, the Inflation Reduction Act to actually address climate change and cap insulin prices was cool, as well as bipartisan bills addressing Infrastructure, microchips, gun control, and a spending agreement is exactly the kind of moderate policy the median voter yearns for, but the guy is a dinosaur."

 

You do see how "protesting" both equates them and is the same rationalization a voter in Wisconsin/Arizona/Georgia would do, yes?

I disagree.  Trump is in a category of bad all by himself.  Avoiding one doesn't mean I have to vote for the other.  Oklahoma isn't anything like those other states.  Trump could walk down Boston Avenue in Tulsa and shoot someone and the state would still vote for him over any Dem.   Trump could proclaim himself as god at the Oral Roberts Prayer Tower, and the state would vote for him.    

 

Now if I lived in a battle ground state like GA, AZ, Wis, etc- then yes, I would hold my nose and vote for the 80 year old Biden.  I would vote for Bernie,  I would vote for Newsom, Liz Warren,  practically anyone other than Trump or even trump light - Desantis.   I'll gladly take a short term 'loss' in my political preferences if it kept the cult & an authoritarian  out of the White House.   But, I don't live in those states so I have options.   

 

Now to the spirit of your point:  If I can have influence over someone's vote in those states, I would try to persuade them to do the same - give up your cherished political dogma for the sake of the country and vote Dem.    That is what I try to do on HB. Trump and the cult and the right side of the GOP have become a threat to our nation and I say this as a GOP voter since 1976.  The GOP does not (outside of a small, diminishing pocket) believe in true conservative principles any longer.  The House Leadership, The Speaker, Majority Leader, Jim Jordan, MTG, Freedom Caucus, etc - is a reflection of what we would get if Trump or Desantis is elected.   Revenge politics - ugly, unproductive, dangerous.  Name history's dictators from the last century - revenge always plays a role and it ends up badly. 

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, commando said:

it seems like this guy is what the republicans want the future of the party to be

 

That is amazing!  71???

 

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

8 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

The bolded here is where you are manufacturing the equivalency. Everyone has a certain threshold for voting for a candidate - call it a mile marker, or even better a speed limit. If one candidate speeds by the milemarker at 200mph and continues going past the horizon, and another candidate is just one mile past the marker going 10 over, a cop pulling both over and citing them tickets is not tantamount to the cop saying they are equal offenders. It's only saying they both did, in fact, go past the limit to differing degrees.

 

I get the point, but I don't think it's that simple.

 

It's a lot more like the cop HAS to choose one or the other to stay on the road. One of those drivers is drunk, willfully ignorant of laws, and is driving into oncoming traffic going 200mph. The other is an old guy going 10 over the speed limit and occasionally veers onto the rumble-strip on the shoulder.

 

While the cop can tell himself that both are breaking the law and may not meet his personal standard of what constitutes a driver he'd want driving on the road, there's a very clear choice to make here and it's not a difficult one. 

 

And I get the frustration with the two party system, but until our elections are changed massively, small protest votes aren't doing to do anything to change that. I also understand that the voters we're talking about here in this thread are voting in areas that don't matter - ironically because Republicans are not in favor of eliminating the Electoral College - the sentiment for why they want to vote third party is not unique. It's why No Labels is a looming threat to hand Trump and Republicans a major victory if they get on the ballot.

[Scarlet]

8 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

The bolded here is where you are manufacturing the equivalency. Everyone has a certain threshold for voting for a candidate - call it a mile marker, or even better a speed limit. If one candidate speeds by the milemarker at 200mph and continues going past the horizon, and another candidate is just one mile past the marker going 10 over, a cop pulling both over and citing them tickets is not tantamount to the cop saying they are equal offenders. It's only saying they both did, in fact, go past the limit to differing degrees.

 

When it comes to someone voting, their own criteria for whether or not they will or can vote for someone is frankly none of your damn business and very much within their rights, and does not at all mean that they are declaring everyone they don't vote for equally unworthy. A better phrase would be all unworthy to varying degrees.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, but if you're right about this, then your tactics of guilt tripping people into picking the bland boring sandwich instead of the steaming pile of s#!t are the actions that lead to us having no viable, healthy and nutritious alternatives.

 

Didn't you just post this? 

 

Quote

There's a good number of things you should like. While inflation is an issue that arose globally outside of any president's control, the US is the least inflated country in the world. Record job numbers. Record unemployment numbers. Massive infrastructure improvements. Massive manufacturing investments. Biggest investment in climate change in history. Got us out of the longest war in the history of our country even though it was ugly. Cut child poverty in half. Prescription drug price caps and reductions esp for seniors. Not just supporting Ukraine but successfully rallying the rest of the world into a united front in supporting Ukraine and strengthening our relationships with NATO and our allies. PACT Act. CHIPS act. Just a few things you should like.

 

 

And now he's an unworthy steaming pile of s#!t?  

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Nobody is equating them. Trump is a disaster. Nobody is as bad as him. 
 

You’re not understanding exactly how much my vote really doesn’t matter. 

 

Well when a red/blue state or county or zip code starts trending a little less red or blue, it does mean something. Your vote won't change the results, but people are definitely paying attention.

 

If you're considering not voting at all, that sends a message, too. But America's poor voter turnout has been the story for decades and we haven't learned much from it. 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

12 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well when a red/blue state or county or zip code starts trending a little less red or blue, it does mean something. Your vote won't change the results, but people are definitely paying attention.

 

If you're considering not voting at all, that sends a message, too. But America's poor voter turnout has been the story for decades and we haven't learned much from it. 

 

 

I haven't decided how I'm going to vote.  I'm absolutely not voting for Trump.  I really don't want to vote for Biden either.

 

So....we will see.  I will vote.  Just not sure for who.  And....it really doesn't matter anyway.

[TGHusker]

17 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I haven't decided how I'm going to vote.  I'm absolutely not voting for Trump.  I really don't want to vote for Biden either.

 

So....we will see.  I will vote.  Just not sure for who.  And....it really doesn't matter anyway.

ditto       

[Guy Chamberlin]

13 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

The stranglehold that the two main parties have on American politics, and their uninspiring candidates, are not the fault or responsibility of the voting citizens. 

 

It's 87% the fault and responsibility of the voting citizens. That we can be manipulated, or allow ourselves to be taken for granted, or simply get lazy voting for brand names and demagogues who promise us everything is also on us. We're given primaries with 27 candidates and typically kick the tires for awhile before running with the less inspiring candidate, apparently because it feels safer.  We've seen candidates with seemingly inspirational stories and healthy campaign funding fail to produce any spark with voters. We're fickle and unpredictable consumers in lots of ways. Americans are less informed on myriad issues than our counterparts in other nations, including those run by oligarchs. That's on us, too. 

 

Something changed in 2016. Bernie Sanders wasn't really a Democrat and Donald Trump wasn't really a Republican, they were just using the apparatus of the two party system. The public saw them as outliers, got inspired and started voting for them -- against the wishes of the two main parties and often not really understanding what Trump and Sanders actually stood for. At the end of the day Hillary Clinton had more support and leverage than Ted Cruz, and the American people got the man they voted for. At least in the Electoral College. Donald Trump is very much the responsibility of the voting citizens, and millions will vote for him again. Super Tuesday Democrats made it clear they trusted Biden to beat Trump more than they trusted a more inspirational candidate.  

 

Local elections seem a more likely place for individuality over party politics, and my guess is that change -- and inspiring national candidates -- are going to come from less expected places and political hotbeds. 

 

The overriding concern is that the political leaders we really need don't want to get anywhere near this soul-robbing circus. 

 

 

[Lorewarn]

2 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I get the point, but I don't think it's that simple.

 

It's a lot more like the cop HAS to choose one or the other to stay on the road. One of those drivers is drunk, willfully ignorant of laws, and is driving into oncoming traffic going 200mph. The other is an old guy going 10 over the speed limit and occasionally veers onto the rumble-strip on the shoulder.

 

He doesn't have to choose one, though. He can choose both, or in the case of a voter, neither

 

 

2 hours ago, Scarlet said:

Didn't you just post this? 

 

 

 

And now he's an unworthy steaming pile of s#!t?  

 

First, I'm not arguing my own beliefs here just arguing the point. Second, the steaming pile of s#!t would be Trump - Biden is the bland boring sandwich

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's 87% the fault and responsibility of the voting citizens. That we can be manipulated, or allow ourselves to be taken for granted, or simply get lazy voting for brand names and demagogues who promise us everything is also on us.

 

I suppose I agree that there is some culpability, but...

 

When you're one person, and your opponent is a massive, well-oiled machine that not only has infinity dollars and resources to use up but also has the aggregate expertise on the exact ways to manipulate and control all of your vulnerabilities as a social primate, what chance do you stand?

[knapplc]

What is this, 2015? People are making the same arguments against voting for the Dem candidate they made back then. 

 

History truly teaches us nothing. 

[Archy1221]

31 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

He doesn't have to choose one, though. He can choose both, or in the case of a voter, neither

 

 

 

First, I'm not arguing my own beliefs here just arguing the point. Second, the steaming pile of s#!t would be Trump - Biden is the bland boring sandwich

 

 

 

 

I suppose I agree that there is some culpability, but...

 

When you're one person, and your opponent is a massive, well-oiled machine that not only has infinity dollars and resources to use up but also has the aggregate expertise on the exact ways to manipulate and control all of your vulnerabilities as a social primate, what chance do you stand?

Being the stickler for word choice that you have been, which campaign has had infinite amount of money and resources to spend?  
 

which campaign has the expertise to manipulate AND control ALL of your vulnerabilities?  
 

Im quite certain many many Democrats are glad Obama didn’t take your theory to heart.